Inattentive listening (again)

[Mandryka]

From what I've read, and seen of quotes of Feldman, this is correct.  He referred to himself as an intuitive composer, finding his progress in a work without an overall formal plan, just intuitively.  He would separate his chords and notes with enough space so that they could be heard individually and not perceived as connected to each other as a harmonic progression.

The length of the works increased more and more later in his career.  Again, he was quoted to the effect it was an attempt to evoke a sensory experience, where the listener is transported to a different state of being as a consequence of the significant length of time we would be listening and concentrating on the sounds/music.

I listened to the first 20 minutes of For Philip Guston. After about 10 minutes the texture seemed to become very sparse, it basically turned into solo flute and solo percussion for a short while. It was for me very effective, very beautiful, but especially because it emerged out of the (slightly!) less bare textures that preceded it. For that reason I am starting to think  there is some structure in the music at some level, though maybe not a harmonic one. But I'm not sure of any of this- I am sure that it is something I'm interested in though!

The way he used silence is wonderful because it seemed to create tension, suspense. Or so it seemed to me.

Fabulous music, but so long. I can't listen to all of it at once!

[Elgarian Redux]

Nearly six years since the last post on this thread, and I read it all from the beginning, to see if I've changed; to see if any kind of consensus was reached; and really, just to read it all for fun.

So what do I think, six years on? I don't think I've changed much. I still spend more time listening inattentively than I do attentively, and I'm still immensely grateful to @Florestan for reassuring me, a long time ago, that I don't need to feel even slightly guilty about it.

Music is no less important to me now than it was six years ago (just as important, indeed, as it was sixty years ago - or even more important). I'm aware that the way to approach all art is with an openness to it, leaving prejudice aside as far as possible, yet I also know that it's very hard to achieve that all the time in practice.

If I'm reading a novel, I still try to play a piece of music that's in sympathy with what I'm reading, even at the risk of sometimes stopping reading to focus on the music, and then maybe switching attention back again later. I don't think the listening has to be a strict, left-brain, rational, analytical process, but of course it can be. When we had that great spasm of excitement about R-K's Antar a while back on GMG, I did a huge amount of highly focused attentive listening. And it was glorious! But now, I'd be very happy to read, for example The Arabian Nights, or Rimsky-Korsakov's autobiography, with Antar playing as I read.

This is the glory of the arts, surely? They invite us to contemplate them, and the way in which we respond to that invitation is likely to be different every single time. Rules for the listener/viewer/reader? There to be broken, I think. Or simply ignored.

[Florestan]

So what do I think, six years on? I don't think I've changed much. I still spend more time listening inattentively than I do attentively,

I haven't changed either.

Speaking about reading while listening (or the other way around), I think this would make for an intereting thread: which composer goes best with what writer (or the other way around). OTOMH, I can think of Tchaikovsky and Turgenev.

[hopefullytrusting]

I listen to most music inattentively, but I also have times scheduled during the week where I listen to music intensively. During those times, I lie on my back, put on my headphones, empty my mind of everything, and open myself to become ensconced and enveloped by the music - I allow it to fill me up until I feel it radiating and pulsing throughout my entire body (or at least that is what I am striving for).

Edit: I try to do this at least 1-hour, per day, if I can.

[Elgarian Redux]

I think this would make for an intereting thread: which composer goes best with what writer (or the other way around). OTOMH, I can think of Tchaikovsky and Turgenev.

Let's do it. What shall we call the thread?

[Elgarian Redux]

How about Musical associations: Listening to composers and reading writers?

[Karl Henning]

Make it so!

[Florestan]

Let's do it. What shall we call the thread?

"Which Composer for What Writer?", how does it sound?

[Florestan]

How about Musical associations: Listening to composers and reading writers?

That's better than mine. Go for it!

[AnotherSpin]

I listen to most music inattentively, but I also have times scheduled during the week where I listen to music intensively. During those times, I lie on my back, put on my headphones, empty my mind of everything, and open myself to become ensconced and enveloped by the music - I allow it to fill me up until I feel it radiating and pulsing throughout my entire body (or at least that is what I am striving for).

Edit: I try to do this at least 1-hour, per day, if I can.

Really?

[hopefullytrusting]

Really?

Yep, I have found that meditation not only relaxes me but makes me more effective, efficacious, and efficient. I recommend it to everyone.

[AnotherSpin]

Yep, I have found that meditation not only relaxes me but makes me more effective, efficacious, and efficient. I recommend it to everyone.

And how do you remove objects from your mind? Some kind of mantra, like in TM, or something else?

[hopefullytrusting]

And how do you remove objects from your mind? Some kind of mantra, like in TM, or something else?

No, I find that doesn't work for me at all - in fact, that irritates me. I just settle in - it normally takes me about 5 or so minutes to get relaxed - I sometimes use certain music/videos that can prime me to get into that state. For example, if I want to fall asleep super quick - I have a video I put on (I don't watch the video), and it puts me to sleep almost instantly.

[Florestan]

if I want to fall asleep super quick - I have a video I put on (I don't watch the video), and it puts me to sleep almost instantly.

I should have thought early Haydn/Mozart is your sleeping pill of choice. 

[hopefullytrusting]

I should have thought early Haydn/Mozart is your sleeping pill of choice. 

Not if I want to fall into true deep sleep - I have a video (which I don't watch) that does it in under 5 minutes. In fact, I cannot turn that video on without falling asleep, lol.

[AnotherSpin]

Not if I want to fall into true deep sleep - I have a video (which I don't watch) that does it in under 5 minutes. In fact, I cannot turn that video on without falling asleep, lol.

Your words - empty my mind of everything - caught my attention at once, since that is one of the central purposes of many spiritual practices. You also mentioned meditation, which strengthened the connection in my mind. Of course, I understood that you meant something different, which your other remarks about videos and so on confirmed.

As I see it, you are talking about replacing one thing with another, a kind of sublimation. I doubt it is possible to fully empty the mind and sustain that state for more than a few minutes. Yet in everyday life such moments occur repeatedly, usually unnoticed.

There is another way, sometimes called a shift of knowing: turning attention from the objects of perception to the perceiving subject. The outside world then appears as a single (one) image, without focus on details. Music becomes one of the elements within that whole. The subject of perception itself becomes an endless meditation, and listening to music in this way could be called inattentive listening.

[hopefullytrusting]

Your words - empty my mind of everything - caught my attention at once, since that is one of the central purposes of many spiritual practices. You also mentioned meditation, which strengthened the connection in my mind. Of course, I understood that you meant something different, which your other remarks about videos and so on confirmed.

As I see it, you are talking about replacing one thing with another, a kind of sublimation. I doubt it is possible to fully empty the mind and sustain that state for more than a few minutes. Yet in everyday life such moments occur repeatedly, usually unnoticed.

There is another way, sometimes called a shift of knowing: turning attention from the objects of perception to the perceiving subject. The outside world then appears as a single (one) image, without focus on details. Music becomes one of the elements within that whole. The subject of perception itself becomes an endless meditation, and listening to music in this way could be called inattentive listening.

I mean the mind can never be empty, but it can have only one thing - that is what I am doing (or trying to do). I sometimes accomplish this through looping.

[AnotherSpin]

I mean the mind can never be empty, but it can have only one thing - that is what I am doing (or trying to do). I sometimes accomplish this through looping.

I am not sure it is possible. And you cannot control this one thing - in fact, you cannot control anything in your mind

[hopefullytrusting]

I am not sure it is possible. And you cannot control this one thing - in fact, you cannot control anything in your mind

My experience says different, but I am aided by genetics.

[ritter]

There are several recent posts in this thread that are off-topic, and are derailing the discussion. This has been reported to the moderators, and we therefore ask members that, if they want to discuss issues not directly related to music, they do so elsewhere (starting a new topic in The Diner, if they so wish).

Thanks.