New to Wagner - Just purchased this big box set.

[Karl Henning]

"The Machine," of course, puts me in mind of The Princess Bride.

[Karl Henning]

Sailing along Die Walküre now. I'd kind of forgotten what a moral quagmire Der Ring is. I guess the willing suspension of moral distaste is practically a prerequisite. Sumptuous music, to be sure.

[Karl Henning]

Sailing along Die Walküre now. I'd kind of forgotten what a moral quagmire Der Ring is. I guess the willing suspension of moral distaste is practically a prerequisite. Sumptuous music, to be sure.

Oh, and Mercy! I've just remembered that Mel Brooks named Maid Marion's governess Brunnhilde.
 

[Karl Henning]

Sailing along Die Walküre now. I'd kind of forgotten what a moral quagmire Der Ring is. I guess the willing suspension of moral distaste is practically a prerequisite. Sumptuous music, to be sure.

And enough exposition to choke a fire-drake.

[(poco) Sforzando]

"The Machine," of course, puts me in mind of The Princess Bride.

Andre the Giant could play Fafner (and Robbie Coltrane Fasolt).

[JBS]

We saw the premiere of Das Rheingold with Levine, when the Machine didn't work in the final scene. We couldn't get tickets inside the theatre, so we listened on the plaza in front of the Met, sitting on chairs while following the video broadcast on a massive screen. At various points during the performance, the heavens opened with torrential rain, and listening to Wagner while sitting on chairs on the plaza in a downpour lent an unforgettable flavour to the whole affair.

It would be quite piquant if the rain occurred just at the point in the final scene when Thor summons up a storm with his hammer.

And of course during the first scene, so you could properly feel like you were, along with the Rhinemaidens and Alberich, immersed in the Rhine.

[JBS]

And enough exposition to choke a fire-drake.

In seriousness, I seem to remember Wagner wrote the libretto of Gotterdammerung first, with characters giving the necessary explanation of preceding events. Then he decided he needed to dramatize the events of Siegfried, so he wrote that libretto including characters giving the necessary explanation of preceding events.Then he decided he needed to dramatize the events of Walkure, so he wrote that libretto including characters giving the necessary explanation of preceding events.
Then he decided he needed to dramatize the events of Rheingold, so he wrote that libretto but had no need of lengthy expositions in it.
Then he started composing, and being Wagner he felt no need to cut the accumulation of speeches and dialogue explaining to the audience what the audience had supposedly seen on the preceding evenings.

[AnotherSpin]

It would be quite piquant if the rain occurred just at the point in the final scene when Thor summons up a storm with his hammer.

And of course during the first scene, so you could properly feel like you were, along with the Rhinemaidens and Alberich, immersed in the Rhine.

Wagner's detractors would surely yawn at such a coincidence. Rain precisely when Thor calls the storm? Or during the Rhinemaidens' splashy opener? How dreadfully banal.

People are endlessly droll: they switch on their suspension of disbelief only for stories they've already deemed worthy, while everything else is waved off as mere chance with imagination firmly shut down.

The real hoot is their smug conviction that this choice was ever their own.

[Karl Henning]

Says the guy who keeps saying he's done with philostophizing. 

[Karl Henning]

In seriousness, I seem to remember Wagner wrote the libretto of Gotterdammerung first, with characters giving the necessary explanation of preceding events. Then he decided he needed to dramatize the events of Siegfried, so he wrote that libretto including characters giving the necessary explanation of preceding events.Then he decided he needed to dramatize the events of Walkure, so he wrote that libretto including characters giving the necessary explanation of preceding events.
Then he decided he needed to dramatize the events of Rheingold, so he wrote that libretto but had no need of lengthy expositions in it.
Then he started composing, and being Wagner he felt no need to cut the accumulation of speeches and dialogue explaining to the audience what the audience had supposedly seen on the preceding evenings.

I believe you have exposited fairly.

[T. D.]

Oh, and Mercy! I've just remembered that Mel Brooks named Maid Marion's governess Brunnhilde.
 

I (boomer) seem to recall "a Brunnhilde" being used in my youth as a slang term for a physically imposing (particularly blonde) woman (somewhat similar to "an Amazon", which maybe had more overtone of attractiveness). Of course tracing back to the Ring. Oddly, I couldn't find any trace of that usage via Google just now, suggesting that it's become obsolete.

[hopefullytrusting]

Solit is the first Ring I owned (and I love it still, probably still my favorite), and it can be had, apparently, for a little over 30 bucks here:

https://www.alibris.com/search/music/upc/0028945555522?invid=18520660878&srsltid=AfmBOoppSZ-oBaJdUIV_bCs9PVrskZjFbq0ZlBZVubCwSRMe4M3OlbyoNyU

[(poco) Sforzando]

In seriousness, I seem to remember Wagner wrote the libretto of Gotterdammerung first, with characters giving the necessary explanation of preceding events. Then he decided he needed to dramatize the events of Siegfried, so he wrote that libretto including characters giving the necessary explanation of preceding events.Then he decided he needed to dramatize the events of Walkure, so he wrote that libretto including characters giving the necessary explanation of preceding events.
Then he decided he needed to dramatize the events of Rheingold, so he wrote that libretto but had no need of lengthy expositions in it.
Then he started composing, and being Wagner he felt no need to cut the accumulation of speeches and dialogue explaining to the audience what the audience had supposedly seen on the preceding evenings.

On this matter, I quote what I wrote some years ago here: As for the flashbacks and reminiscences: these are not necessarily literal recaps of the previous night's action. Wotan's long monologue in Walküre Act II both reprises some of the Rheingold story and provides much new "information." But more important, in this monologue Wotan re-interprets and synthesizes his reactions to the action in a new way, having been outsmarted by Fricka when he realizes his grand scheme to use Siegmund to reclaim the ring is doomed to failure because Siegmund is not truly a free agent. And this is true of virtually all of Wagner's lengthy retellings of events we've seen the night before: they are not present to take up space or waste the audience's time, but because they provide opportunities for a character to understand his or her prior experiences in a wholly new and significant way.

[AnotherSpin]

Says the guy who keeps saying he's done with philostophizing.

I'm not sure you understand what philosophy is. Here's a hint: if it's a bit more complex than discussing baseball or hot dogs, that doesn't make it philosophy.

[Elgarian Redux]

Sailing along Die Walküre now. I'd kind of forgotten what a moral quagmire Der Ring is. I guess the willing suspension of moral distaste is practically a prerequisite. Sumptuous music, to be sure.

But aren't moral quagmires found among all the myths? The Classical myths abound with them (think of Saturn devouring his children). Even the Old Testament abounds with them. I've no wish to embark on a detailed defence of the Ring on these grounds (even if I were capable) - but just observe that all myths tend to include some dodgy moral stuff. I assume it's part of what they are, and how they work.

[AnotherSpin]

But aren't moral quagmires found among all the myths? The Classical myths abound with them (think of Saturn devouring his children). Even the Old Testament abounds with them. I've no wish to embark on a detailed defence of the Ring on these grounds (even if I were capable) - but just observe that all myths tend to include some dodgy moral stuff. I assume it's part of what they are, and how they work.

Myths are wild campfire tales. Saturn eats his kids, Abraham's got the knife over his son, proper grim! But that's the whole point. Greeks: Zeus shags everyone, Prometheus nicks fire. Bible: God floods the world, Lot gets with his daughters. Myths don't say be good, they wake the monster you hide.
Why the nasty bits? Three simple reasons:

- Scary but safe. Hear the horror, let your own fears out, like steam from a kettle.
- World's not a fairy tale. Thunder? God's mad. War? Hero's sulking. No sugar-coating.
- Old family photos. Sacrifices, revenge, drama, that's how our ancestors lived. Chuck it out, you lose the story.

Bottom line: myths strip you bare. Today's morals? Tight shirt. Sit still, look at your own mud, and see: no good, no evil, just life. Be alive.

[steve ridgway]

It would be quite piquant if the rain occurred just at the point in the final scene when Thor summons up a storm with his hammer.

Not impossible, as we found out diving out of the rain into Thor's Cave, dodging lightning incineration by seconds 🙀😹.

[Florestan]

Says the guy who keeps saying he's done with philostophizing.

A fanatical Wagnerite calling other people out for their alleged "smug convictions"... Risum teneatis, amici?

[ritter]

@AnotherSpin has shown keen appreciation of Wagner's work, but calling him "fanatical" says more of who writes that word than of him, TBH.

Good day to you, Andrei!

[Florestan]

@AnotherSpin has shown keen appreciation of Wagner's work, but calling him "fanatical" says more of who writes that word than of him, TBH.

Good day to you, Andrei!

If you have another word for someone who doesn't accept the slightest critique of Wagner, and for whom all non-Wagnerians are just deluded dimwits, please substitute it for "fanatical".