Preferred version of Brahms Symphony #1

[Belle]

I have heard so many performances of this wonderful work that I long ago lost count.  As I write this I'm listening on YT to the Vienna Philharmonic playing the symphony from a 2019 concert in the Musikverein.  This work is very highly strung, taut, dramatic and also lushly romantic;  the ending always leaves me in a heap on the floor. 

I'd like people to share their very best performances of this work and, if possible, provide a link.  After 60 years I've never grown tired of this work.  The mental image of Brahms sitting up there on the Balkon Loge in the Musikverein just a couple of weeks before he succumbed to liver cancer in April, 1897 always creates emotion, the more so since I have attended the Musikverein myself many many times and never heard a Brahms symphony performed.

I don't know of a definitive version of the Brahms #1.  With the #4 it's Kleiber but the First Symphony remains elusive.

[Todd]

I don't know of a definitive version of the Brahms #1.  With the #4 it's Kleiber but the First Symphony remains elusive.

There's no definitive recording of any Brahms symphony.  Assuming you refer to Carlos Kleiber's Vienna recording rather than his Bavarian State Orchestra recording, it's hardly definitive.

[prémont]

There is no definitive recording of any music which is meant to be performed by human beings.

[Belle]

There's no definitive recording of any Brahms symphony.  Assuming you refer to Carlos Kleiber's Vienna recording rather than his Bavarian State Orchestra recording, it's hardly definitive.

I think there is a 'reference' or 'definitive' version, almost unanimously accepted by critics - and Kleiber's CD with the Vienna Philharmonic of the Brahms #4 is one of these.  The recorded sound isn't very good, hitting a 'ceiling' in terms of depth and perspective (which is mostly pretty dry) but this was in the early days of CDs.  Nevertheless Kleiber's incandescent reading of it just jumps right out at you.  I've haven't had that experience with any performance of the Brahms #1.  And there can, of course, we more than one red hot version.

[Brian]

I think there is a 'reference' or 'definitive' version, almost unanimously accepted by critics - and Kleiber's CD with the Vienna Philharmonic of the Brahms #4 is one of these.  The recorded sound isn't very good, hitting a 'ceiling' in terms of depth and perspective (which is mostly pretty dry) but this was in the early days of CDs.  Nevertheless Kleiber's incandescent reading of it just jumps right out at you.  I've haven't had that experience with any performance of the Brahms #1.  And there can, of course, we more than one red hot version.

I agree with you that Kleiber is my preference, but I don't know if I'll be of help as I don't think the First is a very successful symphony or one to my liking. I do think it is more successful when played more quickly. This reduces the risk that a performance will sound pretentious, pompous, or overblown. (The symphony tends to pompousness. Pomposity?)

I was recently very impressed by Gardner on Chandos but doubt that is anything like a "reference." My taste also inclines me to Bruno Walter, Mackerras, and the unusual reading by Ivan Fischer in Budapest.

If there is a critical reference for this symphony it seems to be Klemperer but I don't know that recording well.

[Daverz]

My usual gotos for the symphonies are Klemperer, Walter (stereo), Sanderling/Dresden, Jochum/LPO (stereo), Levine/Chicago (I'm not familiar with Levine/Vienna).  I would supplement with some "historical" recordings like Walter/New York (mono) and Furtwangler/Hamburg.  And also sample recordings with reduced forces like Mackerras or Dausgaard.

[Fixed the link to go to Symphony No. 1]

[Todd]

I think there is a 'reference' or 'definitive' version, almost unanimously accepted by critics - and Kleiber's CD with the Vienna Philharmonic of the Brahms #4 is one of these.

First, it's not almost unanimously accepted by critics now.  It was very popular with critics decades ago.  Second, critics don't matter.  It is helpful to know that you place great stock in what critics write and say.

[Cato]

My favorite recording of the Brahms First Symphony is the First Symphony of Hans Rott! 

But seriously...

or...

And for the Symphony #4

or...Serge Koussevitzky and the Boston Symphony Orchestra

[Belle]

I agree with you that Kleiber is my preference, but I don't know if I'll be of help as I don't think the First is a very successful symphony or one to my liking. I do think it is more successful when played more quickly. This reduces the risk that a performance will sound pretentious, pompous, or overblown. (The symphony tends to pompousness. Pomposity?)

I was recently very impressed by Gardner on Chandos but doubt that is anything like a "reference." My taste also inclines me to Bruno Walter, Mackerras, and the unusual reading by Ivan Fischer in Budapest.

If there is a critical reference for this symphony it seems to be Klemperer but I don't know that recording well.

Great comments, thanks.

[Belle]

First, it's not almost unanimously accepted by critics now.  It was very popular with critics decades ago.  Second, critics don't matter.  It is helpful to know that you place great stock in what critics write and say.

Only in terms of certain performances but I note that when critics dislike something it's sure to garner attention. Same as Pauline Kael and her authoritative film critiques.

[JBS]

I agree with you that Kleiber is my preference, but I don't know if I'll be of help as I don't think the First is a very successful symphony or one to my liking. I do think it is more successful when played more quickly. This reduces the risk that a performance will sound pretentious, pompous, or overblown. (The symphony tends to pompousness. Pomposity?)

I was recently very impressed by Gardner on Chandos but doubt that is anything like a "reference." My taste also inclines me to Bruno Walter, Mackerras, and the unusual reading by Ivan Fischer in Budapest.

If there is a critical reference for this symphony it seems to be Klemperer but I don't know that recording well.

To the part I bolded--that sounds suspiciously like "the sooner we get through it, the better".

I do have a reference recording for the First, but I have no idea of who the conductor or orchestra was because it's one I heard as a kid, and it imprinted on my brain.  The only data point I can provide is that since I heard it as a kid, it must have been recorded before 1970.
That probably leaves a whole host of possibilities.

[AnotherSpin]

Karl Böhm, Wiener Philharmonic. This was the first performance that left an imprint on my memory many years ago. Since then I have heard many different versions, and many of them were interesting. I agree that there is no such thing as a definitive performance.

[Belle]

Karl Böhm, Wiener Philharmonic. This was the first performance that left an imprint on my memory many years ago. Since then I have heard many different versions, and many of them were interesting. I agree that there is no such thing as a definitive performance.

I'll see if I can find it on YT.  Thanks for your comments.  I have Karajan but I think it's a predictable and conservative reading, if I can put it like that.

[Mandryka]

Mengelberg 1943
Furtwanger 1951
Weingartner
Giulini Philharmonia

[Todd]

Only in terms of certain performances but I note that when critics dislike something it's sure to garner attention.

Negative critical reviews garner attention only among people reliant on social signaling.

Same as Pauline Kael and her authoritative film critiques.

This response is excellently worded because it explicitly relies on an appeal to authority.  Kael was not authoritative in any way.  She was like every other movie critic.  She has also been dead for decades.  Her reviews mean less now than when they were published, and they meant nothing at the time except to the comparatively few people reliant upon social signaling to inform them about what was good.  Citing Kael as some type of authority does make clear why the concept of a "definitive" recording was used.

[Belle]

Negative critical reviews garner attention only among people reliant on social signaling.


This response is excellently worded because it explicitly relies on an appeal to authority.  Kael was not authoritative in any way.  She was like every other movie critic.  She has also been dead for decades.  Her reviews mean less now than when they were published, and they meant nothing at the time except to the comparatively few people reliant upon social signaling to inform them about what was good.  Citing Kael as some type of authority does make clear why the concept of a "definitive" recording was used.

Pauline Kael still features in most undergraduate film courses at university;  she was a leader in her field and extremely influential.  'Social signalling' and other such pretentious under-graduate jibberish and completely unoriginal - and I won't respond to that.  Just to say that no less a person than Robert Schumann made a career out of being a music critic.  In fact, he had his own publication Neue Zeitschrift fur Musik.

[Belle]

Mengelberg 1943
Furtwanger 1951
Weingartner
Giulini Philharmonia

Thanks for these tips;  I'll check out YT.  I've found the 1943 Mengelberg and am listening as I write this.  Wow, that dramatic opening with the timpani;  that's what I'm talking about - drama in spades, followed by contrast and highlighting of polyphonic complexity.  Now we're gettin' warm (Louis Armstrong, "High Society").

[Belle]

[Todd]

Pauline Kael still features in most undergraduate film courses at university

That doesn't mean what you think it means. 

'Social signalling' and other such jibberish is a left wing egalitarian word-salad, completely unoriginal - and I won't respond to that.

LOL.  "Left-wing egalitarian" is a whiff of a rejoinder.  Also, you responded to it. 

Your posts are all time period and institution bounded, and very much demonstrate that you align with perceived tastemakers of some purported repute.  That's something to do.

[Madiel]

Pauline Kael still features in most undergraduate film courses at university;  she was a leader in her field and extremely influential.  'Social signalling' and other such pretentious under-graduate jibberish and completely unoriginal - and I won't respond to that.  Just to say that no less a person than Robert Schumann made a career out of being a music critic.  In fact, he had his own publication Neue Zeitschrift fur Musik.

You cannot win this conversation, even by invoking Schumann, so I suggest you stop trying.

As for Brahms' 1st symphony, I have and like Chailly's recording.