Wagner's Valhalla

Started by Greta, April 07, 2007, 08:09:57 PM

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PSmith08

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 23, 2008, 05:55:41 AM
I see the cast here now in your link...not exactly the kind of cast that make you go nuts over. I can't listen to Manfred Jung, I am sorry...

To tell the truth, neither could the audience. His 'Forging Song' was booed pretty roundly, but it's hard to tell how much of that was Jung and how much was Peter Hall. The '83 Ring is worth it for the orchestral conception. It's as powerful as the Decca set, but it's just slightly broader and grander. Really the best of both worlds.

Anne

I'm so glad you are buying that Kubelik Meistersinger.  It is very good.  The first 3 - 4 minutes of act 1 has a beautiful duet by just 2 instruments.  I hope you can find it.  The 3rd act prelude is wonderful.  I have listened to several other conductors' Meistersinger and they don't bring out the beauty of the music as well.

marvinbrown

#562
Quote from: ChamberNut on May 23, 2008, 09:35:51 AM
Marvin,

Are you able to rank Richard's operas, from shortest to longest (approx.)?  One reason I also decided to check out 'Das Rheingold' first, was it's relative short length compared to some of his other operas.

  Well the shortest operas are the earlier ones. But Wagner's best operas are his later mature ones (IE the longer ones).  I have ignored Wagner's first 2 operas The Fairies and The Ban on Love as I view them as experimental works.  This should give you a general idea.  My ratings designated by the * follow each operas.  I have assigned the angel 0:) to signify operas that are my absolute favorites!

  The Flying Dutchman: 2 hours 15 minutes ****
  The Rheingold:  2 hours 25 minutes *****  0:)
  Tannhauser: 3 hours 5 minutes  ****
  Lohengrin:  3 hours 15 minutes  *** (edit: add 1/2 *)
  Rienzi: 3 hours 35 minutes  ***
  Die Walkure: 3 hours 50 minutes *****  0:)
  Siegfried: 4 hours *****  0:)
  Parsifal: 4 hours  *****
  Tristan und Isolde: 4 hours 15 minutes  *****  0:)  (this is my favorite opera in the entire operatic repertoire!)
  Die Meistersinger: 4 hours 22 minutes   *****  0:)
  Gotterdammerung: 4 hours 30 minutes  *****   0:)

  How did I get these durations you ask??  From my itunes library of course!

  PS: Other Wagnerians on this forum are free to disagree with me of course!

  marvin
               

   

Operahaven

Marvin,

Those would be my nominations as well...  :)   Btw, Gotterdammerung is a bit longer at 4 hours and  40  minutes... and not a single weak moment..  0:) 

Just curious to hear your reasons for omitting  Parsifal.

I do believe that it contains the most subtle and ravishing music he ever wrote but it also has more weak moments than the other mature operas, especially in Act 1 and 2. 
I worship Debussy's gentle revolution  -  Prelude To The Afternoon of A Faun  -  for its mostly carefree mood and its rich variety of exquisite sounds.

marvinbrown

#564
Quote from: Operahaven on May 24, 2008, 03:25:03 AM
Marvin,

Those would be my nominations as well...  :)   Btw, Gotterdammerung is a bit longer at 4 hours and  40  minutes... and not a single weak moment..  0:) 

Just curious to hear your reasons for omitting  Parsifal.

I do believe that it contains the most subtle and ravishing music he ever wrote but it also has more weak moments than the other mature operas, especially in Act 1 and 2. 

  Parsifal is a great opera indeed don't get me wrong.  That's why I gave it 5 *.    However I find that I have to be in the mood to listen to it.  It's rather slow tempo and its subdued music require me to be in a very patient relaxed state of mind. So I tend to avoid it during the day and only listen to it in the early evening after I have had a glass of red wine.

  By the way which Gotterdammerung do you have, the Solti Gotterdammerung on Decca is 4 CDs with the following durations:
 
CD1: 1 hour 2 minutes,  CD 2: 57 minutes, CD3: 1 hour 7 minutes, CD4: 1 hour 17 minutes

  Total: 4 hours 23 minues to be exact!
 
marvin 

ChamberNut

Quote from: marvinbrown on May 24, 2008, 02:41:51 AM
  Well the shortest operas are the earlier ones. But Wagner's best operas are his later mature ones (IE the longer ones).  I have ignored Wagner's first 2 operas The Fairies and The Ban on Love as I view them as experimental works.  This should give you a general idea.  My ratings designated by the * follow each operas.  I have assigned the angel 0:) to signify operas that are my absolute favorites!

  The Flying Dutchman: 2 hours 15 minutes ****
  The Rheingold:  2 hours 25 minutes *****  0:)
  Tannhauser: 3 hours 5 minutes  ****
  Lohengrin:  3 hours 15 minutes  ***
  Rienzi: 3 hours 35 minutes  ***
  Die Walkure: 3 hours 50 minutes *****  0:)
  Siegfried: 4 hours *****  0:)
  Parsifal: 4 hours  *****
  Tristan und Isolde: 4 hours 15 minutes  *****  0:)  (this is my favorite opera in the entire operatic repertoire!)
  Die Meistersinger: 4 hours 22 minutes   *****  0:)
  Gotterdammerung: 4 hours 30 minutes  *****   0:)

  How did I get these durations you ask??  From my itunes library of course!

  PS: Other Wagnerians on this forum are free to disagree with me of course!

  marvin
               

   

Thank you Marvin for posting those.  I will probably check out the remainder of The Ring operas next.   :)

Lethevich

PSmith08 - thanks for linking that Solti Ring, I missed it the first time round and I was surprised that the links are still active (and me DLing it all means they'll be active for one more month at least :)). The sound quality is very clear, even with mp3, meaning a potential CD release at some point will be very viable. The orchestra sounds immense in these recordings.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Lethe on May 24, 2008, 05:38:54 AM
PSmith08 - thanks for linking that Solti Ring, I missed it the first time round and I was surprised that the links are still active (and me DLing it all means they'll be active for one more month at least :)). The sound quality is very clear, even with mp3, meaning a potential CD release at some point will be very viable. The orchestra sounds immense in these recordings.

Seconded + I didn't know about them either.

Manuel must still have a Premium account (like I do), files don't have a time limit then.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Wendell_E

Quote from: Operahaven on May 24, 2008, 03:25:03 AM
Btw, Gotterdammerung is a bit longer at 4 hours and  40  minutes... and not a single weak moment..  0:) 

Of course, it works this long, there'll be a bit of variation from conductor to conductor, and even from performance to performance in a run.

I would give Lohengrin more than three stars.  I mean, it's gotta have more than Rienzi!   ;D
"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ― Mark Twain

marvinbrown

Quote from: Wendell_E on May 24, 2008, 07:01:01 AM
Of course, it works this long, there'll be a bit of variation from conductor to conductor, and even from performance to performance in a run.

I would give Lohengrin more than three stars.  I mean, it's gotta have more than Rienzi!   ;D

  OK I'm willing to meet you half way and bump it up by 1/2 a star to 3-1/2 stars, if only for the Here Comes the Bride tune!

  marvin

PSmith08

Quote from: marvinbrown on May 24, 2008, 08:33:31 AM
  OK I'm willing to meet you half way and bump it up by 1/2 a star to 3-1/2 stars, if only for the Here Comes the Bride tune!

  marvin

You might want to go back and listen to Lohengrin with fresh ears. It's better than you think, though it has more in common with grand opera than music drama.

marvinbrown

Quote from: ChamberNut on May 24, 2008, 04:03:56 AM
Thank you Marvin for posting those.  I will probably check out the remainder of The Ring operas next.   :)

  Excellent idea.  Seeing as how you are already engaged in the adventure you might as well see it through. 

 

  marvin 

Wendell_E

Quote from: marvinbrown on May 24, 2008, 08:33:31 AM
  OK I'm willing to meet you half way and bump it up by 1/2 a star to 3-1/2 stars, if only for the Here Comes the Bride tune!

  marvin

:D Personally, I'd take away points for that tune, but Ortrud's music more than makes up for it.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ― Mark Twain

marvinbrown

Quote from: Wendell_E on May 24, 2008, 04:19:48 PM
:D Personally, I'd take away points for that tune, but Ortrud's music more than makes up for it.

You must be referring to act 2, where Ortrud has that glorious monologue where she summons Wotan and the gods for revenge against Lohengrin and Elsa.  This is  the darkest act in that whole opera and one of my favorite scenes.  You see the trouble I have with Lohengrin is that I love Tannhauser and The Flying Dutchman so much that Lohengrin always finishes in 3rd Place. 

  One thing is for sure though, when it comes to ranking Wagner's operas I feel that I am spoiled for choice  ;D!

  marvin

Operahaven

Quote from: marvinbrown on May 24, 2008, 03:37:39 AMBy the way which Gotterdammerung do you have ?

Marvin, I have the 1970 Karajan below:

*

CD 1 - 63.12

CD 2 -  70.86

CD 3 - 64.60

CD 4 - 69.02

And oops it was my mistake...     :-[   

It comes to  4 hours and 28 minutes
I worship Debussy's gentle revolution  -  Prelude To The Afternoon of A Faun  -  for its mostly carefree mood and its rich variety of exquisite sounds.

Operahaven

Quote from: marvinbrown on May 24, 2008, 08:33:31 AMOK I'm willing to meet you half way and bump it up by 1/2 a star to 3-1/2 stars, if only for the Here Comes the Bride tune!

Marvin,

Keep in mind also that the Prelude to  Lohengrin  alone is enough to qualify Wagner as one of the greatest musical geniuses... It is a miracle of inspiration and atmosphere.... absolute musical beauty at its best.
I worship Debussy's gentle revolution  -  Prelude To The Afternoon of A Faun  -  for its mostly carefree mood and its rich variety of exquisite sounds.

Chaszz

Quote from: Operahaven on May 24, 2008, 03:25:03 AM
Marvin,

...   Btw, Gotterdammerung is a bit longer at 4 hours and  40  minutes... and not a single weak moment..  0:) ...


Except for the plot.

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Chaszz on June 01, 2008, 09:06:29 AM
Except for the plot.

Oh, I dunno...I always thought Wagner's plot was rather nice... ;D







Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

ChamberNut

I know Wagner purists may cringe, but I'm really enjoying the Symphonic Syntheses by Stokowski Naxos disc that I got over the weekend.  The Liebesnacht from Tristan und Isolde is particularly breathtaking.


zamyrabyrd

A stunning performance by Callas as Isolde in the death scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htsam9HddyI

Who needs supertitles, in fact, who even needs the right language with a voice and expression like this???

"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one."

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds