"Masterpieces" that you can't suffer

[scarpia]

Whenever I decide to listen to a Beethoven Sonata cycle, I'm confronted with an extremely disagreeable experience that perhaps some of you can relate to, the "Hammerklavier."  I know, it's one of Beethoven's greatest creations, one of the most profound works of art in the history of mankind, is at a level of artistic expression that can hardly be compared to any other work.  But, to be frank, I think it's awful.  Every recording mentions in the linear notes that it wasn't appreciated in Beethoven's lifetime, and I can totally relate to that.  I don't see how anyone can appreciate it now.  If Beethoven had stopped at the first movement he would have had something.  But that slow movement, 17 minutes of morose, reticent, whimpering.  The worst of it is the finale, a "fugue" that could only be written by a deaf man.  I've had it, I'm not going to pretend that I find any pleasure in it.

[Teresa]

Whenever I decide to listen to a Beethoven Sonata cycle, I'm confronted with an extremely disagreeable experience that perhaps some of you can relate to, the "Hammerklavier."  I know, it's one of Beethoven's greatest creations, one of the most profound works of art in the history of mankind, is at a level of artistic expression that can hardly be compared to any other work.  But, to be frank, I think it's awful.  Every recording mentions in the linear notes that it wasn't appreciated in Beethoven's lifetime, and I can totally relate to that.  I don't see how anyone can appreciate it now.  If Beethoven had stopped at the first movement he would have had something.  But that slow movement, 17 minutes of morose, reticent, whimpering.  The worst of it is the finale, a "fugue" that could only be written by a deaf man.  I've had it, I'm not going to pretend that I find any pleasure in it.

I can relate on one level but not another.  First off I don't like Piano Sonatas no matter who writes them, for piano music I prefer Piano Concertos.

Second I refuse to suffer though any music I do not like, one great example is I abhor the first three movements of Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique but love the final two The March to the Scaffold & The Dream of the Witches Sabbath.  My solution I burned the two movements I like to CD-R and sold the original disc.

So if you love Beethoven's other Sonata's perhaps next time you play them skip the offending one?

[Don]

Whenever I decide to listen to a Beethoven Sonata cycle, I'm confronted with an extremely disagreeable experience that perhaps some of you can relate to, the "Hammerklavier."  I know, it's one of Beethoven's greatest creations, one of the most profound works of art in the history of mankind, is at a level of artistic expression that can hardly be compared to any other work.  But, to be frank, I think it's awful.  Every recording mentions in the linear notes that it wasn't appreciated in Beethoven's lifetime, and I can totally relate to that.  I don't see how anyone can appreciate it now.  If Beethoven had stopped at the first movement he would have had something.  But that slow movement, 17 minutes of morose, reticent, whimpering.  The worst of it is the finale, a "fugue" that could only be written by a deaf man.  I've had it, I'm not going to pretend that I find any pleasure in it.

I'm just the opposite.  I get more reward from the "Hammerklavier" than any other Beethoven piano sonata.  Further, the last two movements are my favorites. 

[Don]

First off I don't like Piano Sonatas no matter who writes them,

Just stick to percussion sonatas. 

I can't think of any masterpieces I find difficult to endure.  That even applies to Vivaldi who I don't care for much, but I like to give his Four Seasons a spin now and then.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Whenever I decide to listen to a Beethoven Sonata cycle, I'm confronted with an extremely disagreeable experience that perhaps some of you can relate to, the "Hammerklavier."  I know, it's one of Beethoven's greatest creations, one of the most profound works of art in the history of mankind, is at a level of artistic expression that can hardly be compared to any other work.  But, to be frank, I think it's awful.  Every recording mentions in the linear notes that it wasn't appreciated in Beethoven's lifetime, and I can totally relate to that.  I don't see how anyone can appreciate it now.  If Beethoven had stopped at the first movement he would have had something.  But that slow movement, 17 minutes of morose, reticent, whimpering.  The worst of it is the finale, a "fugue" that could only be written by a deaf man.  I've had it, I'm not going to pretend that I find any pleasure in it.

The Op. 106 takes time to get to know. 12 or 13 years ago I thought it was god-awful. Now I think it is probably one of the most sublime creations in the genre, ever. Actually I think all of Beethoven's late sonatas starting from Op. 101 are so special that they really belong in a genre all by themselves (well the earlier ones aren't too shabby either).

Back on topic, some works I never like and most likely never will no matter how hard I try are:

1) Debussy's La Mer, Jeaux, and Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun. I know they are supposed to be creative, influential and all but frankly I can't listen to them.
2) Ravel's Daphis and Chloe.
3) Brahms' Orchestral Serenades.
4) Tchailovsky's Serenade for Strings

and finally
5) Puccini's Turandot and Madama Butterfly. The pseudo-oriental melodies are horrible and really grate on my senses. Real Chinese traditional music resembles nothing like the hackjob in Turandot. Just ask Harry - the traditional Chinese music cds Springrite sent him are pretty close to the real thing.

[Lethevich]

Back on topic, some works I never like and most likely never will no matter how hard I try are:

4) Tchailovsky's Serenade for Strings

Do you kick puppies too?

[ChamberNut]

I was very bewildered and didn't quite know what to think of the Hammerklavier Sonata, the first few times I've heard it.

Today is a different story......it is most definitely one of my favorite Beethoven Sonatas.  The lengthy slow movement is one of the most "sublime" that I've heard. (yes, subliem is an overused term, but I think apropos in this case).

As for me, nothing is written in stone, but I can't stand Ravel's Bolero.  Nor do I think I'll ever be able to listen to Puccini.

[Kullervo]

I can tell from what I've heard of Gounod that I wouldn't want to sit through his Faust.

[Teresa]

Do you kick puppies too?

I'm with PerfectWagner I don't like Tchailovsky's Serenade for Strings and Tchaikovsky is one of my favorite composers!  I love all of his Tone Poems, Symphonies and Concertos.

[springrite]

As for me, nothing is written in stone, but I can't stand Ravel's Bolero. 

Well, even Ravel did not consider it a masterpiece.

As for me, Schubert's last two symphonies and most of Mendelssohn.

[jochanaan]

If some of us don't like it, is it still a masterpiece?

There aren't many pieces that fit the description for me, but I've never had much connection with Rossini overtures or Strauss waltzes--by any of the Strauss family.  (Well, Dickie's Rosenkavalier waltzes aren't too bad. )  And I can't say I haven't been properly exposed; several times I've played with a local group, the Mostly Strauss Orchestra, and I've done several Rossini overtures many times.

[M forever]

Well, even Ravel did not consider it a masterpiece.

He was being sarcastic and self-critical. Just good style for him. If he hadn't thought it was a good composition, he wouldn't have published it. He never published anything that he wasn't convinced of. And why should he not have been happy with this piece? A complete flash of genius in the simplicity of the idea on the one hand and the masterful, elaborate craftsmanship displayed in the execution (basically the highly nuanced and inventive orchestration) on the other, and to top everything off, the crazy ending where eveything just plunges into chaos. The kind of stuff only someone at the same time as crazy and as cultivated like Ravel could have come up with.

[Solitary Wanderer]

I can tell from what I've heard of Gounod that I wouldn't want to sit through his Faust.

Wagner called Gounod 'face powder music' 

ps: I sat through a complete production of Faust last year and thought it was quite wonderful.

[Lethevich]

ps: I sat through a complete production of Faust last year and thought it was quite wonderful.

I have a CD of highlights and very much enjoy it, although when listening I cannot help but wish that Verdi wrote an opera on the subject...

[max]

I have a CD of highlights and very much enjoy it, although when listening I cannot help but wish that Verdi wrote an opera on the subject...

I get the feeling even Wagner or Verdi wouldn't have been as appropriate as Mozart for the job!

[val]

scarpia

Whenever I decide to listen to a Beethoven Sonata cycle, I'm confronted with an extremely disagreeable experience that perhaps some of you can relate to, the "Hammerklavier."
I don't see how anyone can appreciate it now. 

Well, it is my favorite musical work. And I am not pretending. From all the music composed in History, including other great masterpieces of Bach or Beethoven, this Sonata is the work that touches me more deeply. And in special the Adagio. By the way, 17' means a tempo too fast. for my taste. The 19'50'' of Gilels seem better to me.

[PSmith08]

I get the feeling even Wagner or Verdi wouldn't have been as appropriate as Mozart for the job!

Mozart certainly had the experience with matters infernal, but I would be more apt to give Richard Strauss the task. I think he could have some fun with the good doctor.

In any event, as to masterpieces I can't suffer. I don't know that I'd put it in such dramatic terms, but I really can take or leave Tchaikovsky's 6th. It isn't a Tchaikovsky thing, at least I don't think so, since I enjoy the Little Russian quite a bit. All I do know is that I cannot seem to get any traction with the 6th.

[71 dB]

Is Messiaen's Turangalîla Symphony considered a masterpiece? I can't stand it. I also don't like Mozart's Magic Flute or anything by Rossini, Verdi and Britten.

[max]

Is Messiaen's Turangalîla Symphony considered a masterpiece? I can't stand it. I also don't like Mozart's Magic Flute or anything by Rossini, Verdi and Britten.

...anyone who doesn't like The Magic Flute ain't human!!

[71 dB]

...anyone who doesn't like The Magic Flute ain't human!!

I might like seeing The Magic Flute but the music alone is amazingly horrible to be Mozart.