A British Composer Poll

[Lethevich]

Britten's place is still undecided IMO, with some quite unappealing characteristics, an opera composer who wrote no symphonies, few concertos (none of them really 'popular') and a lot of slightly difficult music besides. I'm still working my way through his music, and after more than 30 years, I have to admit it's a difficult progress.

Weird - you sum up my view of him very closely. I find his output to be rather "bitty", not particularly in quality, but in the disparate groupings of forms, scorings and intended impacts. Outside of opera it is only in the cello suites and string quartets that you can really observe a measurable progression. The "symphonies" are all too wilfully different to meaningfully compare (although I suppose the Sinfonia da Requiem and cello symphony are vaguely on the same track). But to say that there is a lot of interest in his output is understating, though - it's confusing but much of it is brilliant...

Re. your first four, my list would probably be the same, but excluding Arnold for Walton. I would be tempted to add Finzi, but that is a far too personal choice.

[karlhenning]

I find [Britten's] output to be rather "bitty", not particularly in quality, but in the disparate groupings of forms, scorings and intended impacts. Outside of opera it is only in the cello suites and string quartets that you can really observe a measurable progression.

But why is this "bitty" rather than simply versatile, Sara?  What notions of "measurable progression" are we trying to mis-fit his oeuvre to?

I tend not to be all that mad over his sacred choral music;  all that I've sung or heard has been well-made in a modest gebrauchsmusikalisch way, but none of this phase of his work has impressed me the way that other great composers of sacred music have.  (And, I find that less of an overall-catalogue-marring issue than, say, Elgar's symphonies, which convince me rather less in their way than Britten's various sacred anthems and canticles.)

But, the operas, the Sinfonia da requiem, the string orchestra works, the Canticles, the Serenade and Nocturne for tenor and accompaniment, the War Requiem, even so apparently modest an undertaking as The Young Person's Guide . . . as a body of work, this clearly signals to me a great talent.

[Christo]

a great talent.

[Lethevich]

But why is this "bitty" rather than simply versatile, Sara?  What notions of "measurable progression" are we trying to mis-fit his oeuvre to?

I tend not to be all that mad over his sacred choral music;  all that I've sung or heard has been well-made in a modest gebrauchsmusikalisch way, but none of this phase of his work has impressed me the way that other great composers of sacred music have.  (And, I find that less of an overall-catalogue-marring issue than, say, Elgar's symphonies, which convince me rather less in their way than Britten's various sacred anthems and canticles.)

But, the operas, the Sinfonia da requiem, the string orchestra works, the Canticles, the Serenade and Nocturne for tenor and accompaniment, the War Requiem, even so apparently modest an undertaking as The Young Person's Guide . . . as a body of work, this clearly signals to me a great talent.

Yip, I'd have to add a lot more to the list to include everything I find to be very good or great, which makes the difficulty of grasping the rest of the output a little off-putting. F.eg. I can explore the byways of Haydn or Dvořák and "understand" everything that I encounter, even if it is minor or uninspired, but with Britten at times it makes me question the better works which I do like. A wrong attitude to take, but it's unfortunately there (RVW's quote about Stravinsky having an "elaborate bag of tricks" when I am on a downer about Britten seems to apply to him more than the originally intended target). I admire the sparse quality which donwyn mentions, but it can play against him in the lesser works. I hope I'll find a time when I warm more to him, I have a lot of years left

[karlhenning]

No hurry, Sara; take your time 

[mn dave]

Time for some big-time promotion.

[vandermolen]

The original 1913 version of Vaughan Williams's London Symphony (only recording on Chandos/LSO/Hickox) is perhaps the most 'mahlerian' of VW's works. This original rambling but deeply affecting version is much darker that the 1936 revision. IMHO VW cut out the most beautiful section, just before the end of the Epilogue last movement. All credit to the late Ursula Vaughan williams for allowing this recording to take place. I was at the first performance since the First World War, a great occasion in London.

[vandermolen]

As for Britten, I am not such a fan being rather oblivious to opera. However, I saw a great performance of Sinfonia da Requiem many years ago. This, together with the War Requiem and Cantata Misericordium are my favourites.

[Lilas Pastia]

Vaughan-Williams is to 20th Century what Mahler was.

I see that my sentence is incomplete - somehow I cut it off in the middle .  It should read: VW is to 20th Century music what Mahler was to the previous 50 years. Not in any stylistic sense (they are totally different), but in the magnitude of their contribution to music. I see them as equals in value. Mahler may seem to have probed the human experience deeper (mind, emotions), whereas VW's works address the same aspects in a more abstract way (like Sibelius). At the same time, his genius was probably more protean. He was able to express his art in many different musical forms. Mahler is more immediately accessible in his overtly dramatic, histrionic approach to musical ideas. Vaughan-Williams finds different layers of significance with a musical language that is at once rougher and more apollonian, as well as more varied, but sometimes less approachable (symphonies 4, 8 and 9 for example).

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Oh dear - thanks anyway!  Oh, but I'm interested in the story of 'Turn of the Screw', so might that opera be musically somewhat accessible? Please tell me it's not all recitative.

My core interest is major orchestral works.

Turn of the Screw is unique and exotic and very accessible. However, if your two main requirements are 1) traditional operatic singing 2) backed by large orchestral forces you might want to steer clear.

But if you think you'd like something a little 'offbeat' you might find it worth your while. Turn is a chamber opera comprised of thirteen instrumentalists supporting the vocal soloists. Yes, it's pretty 'talky' and you'll not soon mistake it for Rossini but in the tradition of 20th century opera it has a flavor all its own. It makes good use of 'sparseness' (as Lethe described it) but what gives it its staying power is how the empty spaces are strategically filled. Pretty clever writing by Britten.

[knight66]

Huge Britten fan myself, but Vaughan Williams might be a close second.

--Bruce

Ditto, with Elgar third.

I don't regard Handel as British.

Mike

[Wanderer]

I don't regard Handel as British.

Me neither.

Among the poll choices, Vaughan Williams and Elgar would be my picks. However, I wouldn't want to be without Walton, Foulds, Bantock, Arnold and Simpson. Tovey deserves honorary mention for his exquisite piano concerto.
Many of the others already mentioned above have penned works I deeply admire but citing names has to stop somewhere.

[vandermolen]

Me neither.

Among the poll choices, Vaughan Williams and Elgar would be my picks. However, I wouldn't want to be without Walton, Foulds, Bantock, Arnold and Simpson. Tovey deserves honorary mention for his exquisite piano concerto.
Many of the others already mentioned above have penned works I deeply admire but citing names has to stop somewhere.

Interesting choice of composers, all of whom appeal to me (some reservations about Simpson but like symphs 1, 3 and 5). The slow movement of the Tovey Symphony is very moving.

[eyeresist]

Turn of the Screw is unique and exotic and very accessible. However, if your two main requirements are 1) traditional operatic singing 2) backed by large orchestral forces you might want to steer clear.

But if you think you'd like something a little 'offbeat' you might find it worth your while. Turn is a chamber opera comprised of thirteen instrumentalists supporting the vocal soloists. Yes, it's pretty 'talky' and you'll not soon mistake it for Rossini but in the tradition of 20th century opera it has a flavor all its own. It makes good use of 'sparseness' (as Lethe described it) but what gives it its staying power is how the empty spaces are strategically filled. Pretty clever writing by Britten.

Actually, I'm not a big fan of "traditional operatic singing"! I've been whetting my appetite by reading the Third Ear Guide's Britten entry, so I think some sort of purchase may be imminent....

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Actually, I'm not a big fan of "traditional operatic singing"! I've been whetting my appetite by reading the Third Ear Guide's Britten entry, so I think some sort of purchase may be imminent....

Best of luck if you decide to take the plunge.

Incidentally, you might find this Britten opera thread a helpful read...

[eyeresist]

Thank you! Gee, this forum business can sure get expensive....

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Apropos to this tiny Britten tangent, I've just made acquaintance with a recording that has turned my image of Britten on its head.

Move over the image of Britten as 'sleight of hand' master and make room for Britten (for at least this one work) the racy, sequined showman! Wouldn't have believed it but Britten matches that paragon of bravura showmanship, Liszt, at his own game. The piano writing in the below PC recording is truly spectacular! Dancing, dodging, coaxing...BLISTERING! Thoroughly pulse-pounding in the grand manner.

And when we get to the slow movement...oooooooo dawgy...break out the hanky....

Granted it's only one listen but if this doesn't rank in the top handful of great 20th c. piano concertos, then, well...

[drogulus]

Apropos to this tiny Britten tangent, I've just made acquaintance with a recording that has turned my image of Britten on its head.

Move over the image of Britten as 'sleight of hand' master and make room for Britten (for at least this one work) the racy, sequined showman! Wouldn't have believed it but Britten matches that paragon of bravura showmanship, Liszt, at his own game. The piano writing in the below PC recording is truly spectacular! Dancing, dodging, coaxing...BLISTERING! Thoroughly pulse-pounding in the grand manner.

And when we get to the slow movement...oooooooo dawgy...break out the hanky....

Granted it's only one listen but if this doesn't rank in the top handful of great 20th c. piano concertos, then, well...

     I'll have to check it out.

     This Naxos disc with the Violin Concerto and the Cello Symphony is one of the most important CDs I've acquired in a very long time. It spurred an intense Britten listening period which has continued for several weeks. As a result I've had a major turnaround in my estimation of the composer.


     

     

[Dancing Divertimentian]

     I'll have to check it out.

I don't think you'll be sorry. Especially if you like the violin concerto. The piano concerto is much in the same vein - unbridled. Maybe even more so.

Try if you can to find the Andsnes recording above. It's a whirlwind. Yes I'm sure there are other recordings out there but this one makes such a good case for the work. It's OOP but available at ArkivMusic as part of their "On Demand" line.

[lukeottevanger]

You won't go wrong with Richter's own reading, with Britten, either.

 

But, from my experience, this work it doesn't require having 'a case' made for it - it's just a superb piece.