Isn't death an uplifting subject?

[scarpia]

I was just listening to Shostakovitch string quartet no. 15, which the notes on my CD describe as coming from Shostakovitch's obsession with his impending death.  As I recall, there are 6 adagio movements in a row, with the most lively one designated as a "funeral march."  Pardon my impertinence, but what an insufferable piece of trash.  If you are obsessed with death, you should just go to the movies, you shouldn't be trying to write music.  Especially if you are of the stature of Shostakovitch, so that everything you write is supposedly "significant."

[some guy]

Death is a pretty common subject, for any artist at any time--at any time of their life, for that matter. Indeed, teenagers are probably more obsessed with it than oldies. Anyway, the short answer to your question is "the work of art, as art, probably IS uplifting."

As for the 15th string quartet, what do you think of the music? Forget about Shostakovich's life (oh how I wish people could forget about Shostakovich's life--colors every piece anyone ever listens to pretty much--means that very few people really listen to the music itself, as music) and just listen.

You may still not particularly like it, but jeez, give yourself at least half a chance. (It's quite a nice piece, you see.)

[scarpia]

Death is a pretty common subject, for any artist at any time--at any time of their life, for that matter. Indeed, teenagers are probably more obsessed with it than oldies. Anyway, the short answer to your question is "the work of art, as art, probably IS uplifting."

As for the 15th string quartet, what do you think of the music? Forget about Shostakovich's life (oh how I wish people could forget about Shostakovich's life--colors every piece anyone ever listens to pretty much--means that very few people really listen to the music itself, as music) and just listen.

You may still not particularly like it, but jeez, give yourself at least half a chance. (It's quite a nice piece, you see.)

Believe me, I would have been reading the booklet at all if the piece hadn't been so deathly dull.

[some guy]

Ah, well, can't help you there. Except by saying that I at least do not find the piece at all dull. So there's a possibility that you, too, some day will also find it to be a satisfying musical experience.

[mahler10th]

Tod und Verklarung.  An interpretation of death like no other.
Mahlers 10th.  A death too soon, the great interpolation three quarters of the way through the adagio confirms that.
Death and the Maiden.  I would die to this music.

[knight66]

Artists are inspired by and interpret the world and the human condition. Death is about the only certainty. Especially in earlier generations, it was much more present; where cutting yourself could lead to death rather than a visit to the Doctor for a tetanus shot. Where infant mortality was high as against now, a burst appendix would spell the end and hundreds of thousands went off to war and lie under clean white headstones.

I am not surprised that various artists have been preoccupied with death; it is one of the major issues in life. Suggesting a Hollywood film to work on the angst is the trivialisation, not an adult exploration of it by composers and others.

Mike

[DavidRoss]

Thanks, Mike.  "That undiscover'd country, from whose bourne no traveller returns," demands that sentient creatures discover meaning in life.  For some, it wears spurs; for others, it's a cheery hearth at the end of a long day.  Until we come to grips with death, our lives are condemned to triviality.

So, in answer to the question posed by the OP, "Yes--it's a very uplifting subject."

I like Mahler 10th's list.  In addition to the rest of Mahler's music, I would add at least all of the wonderful requiems, all of Bach's sacred music (and everyone else's!), much of Wagner, and so on, including my favorite symphonies, Sibelius's 4th and 5th.

[karlhenning]

I was just listening to Shostakovitch string quartet no. 15, which the notes on my CD describe as coming from Shostakovitch's obsession with his impending death.  As I recall, there are 6 adagio movements in a row, with the most lively one designated as a "funeral march."  Pardon my impertinence, but what an insufferable piece of trash.  If you are obsessed with death, you should just go to the movies, you shouldn't be trying to write music.  Especially if you are of the stature of Shostakovitch, so that everything you write is supposedly "significant."

A pity that it hasn't grabbed your ear this time around;  that quartet really is magnificent.

[karlhenning]

Ah, well, can't help you there. Except by saying that I at least do not find the piece at all dull. So there's a possibility that you, too, some day will also find it to be a satisfying musical experience.

One hopes.  I never know what may be the right thing to suggest, when anyone finds "deathly dull" music which I find vital and absorbing.

[DavidRoss]

One hopes.  I never know what may be the right thing to suggest, when anyone finds "deathly dull" music which I find vital and absorbing.

Give him time.  Once he outgrows Final Fantasy and Grand Theft Auto he might find that what seems exciting in adolescence is actually dull, and vice versa.

[scarpia]

Tod und Verklarung.  An interpretation of death like no other.
Mahlers 10th.  A death too soon, the great interpolation three quarters of the way through the adagio confirms that.
Death and the Maiden.  I would die to this music.

All of these pieces have dramatic contrasts between gloomy thoughts and vital thoughts, fear of death, thoughts of life being left behind, remembrances of past experiences, hopeful thoughts, sad thoughts.  This piece runs the gamut from A to B, so to speak. 

[karlhenning]

All of these pieces have dramatic contrasts between gloomy thoughts and vital thoughts, fear of death, thoughts of life being left behind, remembrances of past experiences, hopeful thoughts, sad thoughts.  This piece runs the gamut from A to B, so to speak. 

If you were speaking of Brahms, he might reply, "Any ass can tell that."

If you know much of the Shostakovich oeuvre, you already understand that the composer has an excellent command of contrast, throughout his career.  In contrast to that mode of multi-movement organization, this is a quartet whose contrasts are subtle, whose color-pallette is deliberately muted.  The fault is not in the piece;  your listening gear need to be recalibrated.

[scarpia]

If you were speaking of Brahms, he might reply, "Any ass can tell that."

Brahms would have the good sense never to write such a piece of music.

[DavidRoss]

All of these pieces have dramatic contrasts between gloomy thoughts and vital thoughts, fear of death, thoughts of life being left behind, remembrances of past experiences, hopeful thoughts, sad thoughts.  This piece runs the gamut from A to B, so to speak. 

None of those pieces have any such stuff.  That's all stuff that you "read into" them.  What those pieces have are tone, rhythm, melody, timbre, pitch, dynamics, harmony, duration, and so on.  Likewise, running the gamut from A to B describes your ability to respond to the piece, not the piece itself.  But I'm glad you brought it up, since it reminds me that I haven't heard this piece in quite some time--in fact, I doubt I've heard any of Shosty's 4tets in the past couple of months.  Think I'll remedy that today, starting w/#15.  Who knows, my reaction today might be identical to yours!

[mn dave]

I figure that if you avoid the subject of death, you won't be prepared when it comes a'knockin'.

[Renfield]

I was just listening to Shostakovitch string quartet no. 15, which the notes on my CD describe as coming from Shostakovitch's obsession with his impending death.  As I recall, there are 6 adagio movements in a row, with the most lively one designated as a "funeral march."  Pardon my impertinence, but what an insufferable piece of trash.  If you are obsessed with death, you should just go to the movies, you shouldn't be trying to write music.  Especially if you are of the stature of Shostakovitch, so that everything you write is supposedly "significant."

Do you suggest music should only concern itself with the uplifting; or at the very worst with the contrast between the uplifting and the pessimistic? Or is your objection with the theme of death in specific?

If so, why should not music be written to reflect on death? Is it a bad subject? Boring? Or a priori sentimental, and trite?

Please, do enlighten me. I'm usually not keen to engage on these sort of extra-musical discussions, but this one piqued my interest.


(Incidentally, DavidRoss, themes such as death are far from absent in (certain iterations of) Final Fantasy and Grand Theft Auto; particularly the latter, though drenched in irony, like almost everything else about GTA. Off-hand dismissals are fun and simple, aren't they?)

[scarpia]

None of those pieces have any such stuff.  That's all stuff that you "read into" them.  What those pieces have are tone, rhythm, melody, timbre, pitch, dynamics, harmony, duration, and so on.  Likewise, running the gamut from A to B describes your ability to respond to the piece, not the piece itself.

How much can you read into a piece whose six movements are marked Adagio, Adagio, Adagio, Adagio, Adagio molto, and Adagio.  Yes, after the exhaustion of four "Adagio" movements an "Adagio molto" brings welcome relief.  Thsn it gets the hear racing to hear that "Adagio" finale come roaring out of the "Adagio molto."

[Renfield]

How much can you read into a piece whose six movements are marked Adagio, Adagio, Adagio, Adagio, Adagio molto, and Adagio.  Yes, after the exhaustion of four "Adagio" movements an "Adagio molto" brings welcome relief.  Thsn it gets the hear racing to hear that "Adagio" finale come roaring out of the "Adagio molto."

So you found the music boring. Excellent. What does that have to do with death, now?

[some guy]

What those pieces have are tone, rhythm, melody, timbre, pitch, dynamics, harmony, duration, and so on.

How nice to see someone besides me make that point!

(No, I'm not going to elaborate. I'm just gonna bask here for a minute. OK, I'll mention that I did listen to the fifteenth again after reading the original post, just to confirm my earlier impressions of it. There's a very funny musical joke in it, by the way. A sort of thumb your nose at death and solemnity joke. Or that's how I took it, anyway.)

[DavidRoss]

(Incidentally, DavidRoss, themes such as death are far from absent in (certain iterations of) Final Fantasy and Grand Theft Auto; particularly the latter, though drenched in irony, like almost everything else about GTA. Off-hand dismissals are fun and simple, aren't they?)

WTF?  This reads as if you're trying to chastize me (rather cheeky for a pup barely out of nappies!), but no matter how much I try to dumb down, I still can't figure out what you misread into the post you're referring to.  Off-target rebukes are embarrassing and revealing, aren't they?

Now  it's time to sit back and enjoy the Danels do Shosty 15!