Let's play a little game

[Sergeant Rock]

Shosty had a bit more than that; I haven't had much chance to explore them though, so I don't know how great a symphonists he is.

1, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 13, 14, 15 ....nine great ones. The others don't count so he obeyed the law, technically 

However, your idea is supported by Mahler. He died trying to write a 10th!

My point exactly. God doesn't play games with the rule of nine.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

I'd give Puccini a year - just to find out how Turandot's final scene should really go, and to hear that "big tune" that he never got round to writing. Maybe he'd have only needed a couple of extra months. He was almost there.

Ah yes...forgot about Puccini's unfinished work. I too want to know how Turandot turns out. So I take a year from Mahler and give it to him.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

I'd distribute the 20 years as follows:
Beethoven - 3 (to compose his 10th symphony, thereby amending the law cited above by Sarge)

Amending this kind of cosmic law can have dire consequences; tear a hole in the fabric of the universe. Beethoven's productive life ended, in my opinion, very satisfactorily: arguably the most popular symphony ever written; 32 piano sonatas (do we really want to go beyond the sublime 109/110/111?); and a final work, a string quartet, whose fiinale sums up perfectly not only his life, but all life: Muß es sein? Es muß sein. Beethoven's artistic achievement was perfect. I wouldn't alter it and risk the universe

Sarge

[mn dave]

I wouldn't alter it and risk the universe

Oh, you're no fun.

[Sergeant Rock]

Oh, you're no fun.

Well, if there's a restaurant at the end of the universe, I might be amenable to amending the law.

Sarge

[bwv 1080]

Mozart 30
Schumann 20
Debussy 10
Mahler 10
Webern 15
Ligeti 5

and take from some of the less productive older composers:
Sibelius -30
Ives -20
Henry Cowell -15
Varese -5

[karlhenning]

1, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 13, 14, 15 ....nine great ones. The others don't count so he obeyed the law, technically 

No, Sarge, the Shostakovich Ninth is certainly no less great than either the Beethoven Opus 21 or 36 

[karlhenning]

Beethoven's artistic achievement was perfect.

I like your sense of humor! 

[Sergeant Rock]

I like your sense of humor! 

The overall achievement, yes, was perfect.

Sarge

[Keemun]

Amending this kind of cosmic law can have dire consequences; tear a hole in the fabric of the universe. Beethoven's productive life ended, in my opinion, very satisfactorily: arguably the most popular symphony ever written; 32 piano sonatas (do we really want to go beyond the sublime 109/110/111?); and a final work, a string quartet, whose fiinale sums up perfectly not only his life, but all life: Muß es sein? Es muß sein. Beethoven's artistic achievement was perfect. I wouldn't alter it and risk the universe

Sarge

I have no argument with your opinion of Beethoven's productive life.  But my curiosity dictates that he be afforded an opportunity to compose his 10th symphony.  I say we take the red pill and see what happens. 

[Sergeant Rock]

No, Sarge, the Shostakovich Ninth is certainly no less great than either the Beethoven Opus 21 or 36 

Oh I prefer the Ninth to the Leningrad, Karl, and was very tempted to include it among the nine I listed instead (I think the 7th is fatally flawed). But I knew I couldn't get away with that in this forum where the 7th is, to my puzzlement, much loved.

Sarge

[mn dave]

The overall achievement, yes, was perfect.

Sarge

Finally, a little common sense.  0:)

[karlhenning]

The overall achievement, yes, was perfect.

No doubt, Sarge;  but we can say that of other artists, without any question of the perfection of their overall achievement being contingent on the degree to which it relates to Beethoven.

Not that you're saying otherwise;  just to be (for want of a better word) clear 

[Sergeant Rock]

I have no argument with your opinion of Beethoven's productive life.  But my curiosity dictates that he be afforded an opportunity to compose his 10th symphony.  I say we take the red pill and see what happens. 

You're an impetuous and dangerous man, Keemun  

[karlhenning]

(I think the 7th is fatally flawed)

Ah, well.

[Sergeant Rock]

No doubt, Sarge;  but we can say that of other artists, without any question of the perfection of their overall achievement being contingent on the degree to which it relates to Beethoven.

Not that you're saying otherwise;  just to be (for want of a better word) clear 

We're clear on that, Karl. I've never argued otherwise about Beethoven.  It's Wagner everyone must be compared to, and so far, everyone has been found wanting 

Sarge

[karlhenning]

I like your sense of humor! 

[Sergeant Rock]

Ah, well.

I admit it may be me; a personal incompatibility problem with the music, or perhaps I just haven't heard the right performance (we've discussed this before). But I do wonder if the critical consensus after the war (even by those conductors who championed it at first) wasn't correct afterall: that it isn't a very good symphony...or at least, not a great one.

Sarge

[mn dave]

We're clear on that, Karl. I've never argued otherwise about Beethoven.  It's Wagner everyone must be compared to, and so far, everyone has been found wanting 

Sarge

Aargh. 

[Keemun]

You're an impetuous and dangerous man, Keemun  

Perhaps, but I don't believe the universe is any more at risk than giving Chopin an opportunity to compose a 20th nocturne.  Perhaps there is an often overlooked cosmic law against such a thing.