Help me build a starter kit for my students.

[hornteacher]

Can I just say I'm loving this thread?  I know its impossible to cover "the basics" in 5 CDs but I really like everyone's take on what to include.  For what its worth, when we do listening throughout the year the kids seem to latch on to most of the stuff I play (once I provide some historical context/insight).

Their favorites year after year tend to be The Seasons, Beethoven's 5th, Dvorak's 9th, The Nutcracker, The Planets, Copland's Rodeo, and Steve Reich's Clapping Music.

[andy]

Whether it sounds like a good idea or not, it's contradicted by experience.  James might not have responded to Bach as a teen (I'm not sure he digs Bach even today), but many do.  Read Tony's post.  Read the threads here and at CMG about how members got interested in classical music.  If you know any kids into classical, ask them what turned them on--odds are you'll get nearly as many answers as there are kids.

The point is to introduce kids to classical music, not to infect them with our biases.

BTW, as a teenager I dug Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Mahler, Stravinsky, AND Stockhausen.  Of course, I had the benefit of exposure to all. 

I'm in my mid 20s and I've forced a fair number of my friends to listen to classical music with me. They tend to dislike the older stuff, Bach, Mozart, Brahms et al. and love modern stuff that isn't too difficult, e.g., serialism. For instance, most of my friends have liked, upon first listen, Ligeti's Atmospheres and Clocks and Clouds. Steve Reich is a favorite too, but more for background, or driving, music. My friends tend to love the "noisy" parts of Stravinsky's music, but get bored during the slow parts.

It's different for different folks of course, but these people are accustomed to noisy and experimental music like Sonic Youth and Radiohead, and definitely dig hearing classical music that is even more experimental, boundary pushing, than the pop/rock music they've listened to.

[karlhenning]

     I'd go with at least some 20th century stuff, starting with Stravinsky.

We agree; hence my inclusion of Le sacre on 'my' disc 5 . . . .

[karlhenning]

Can I just say I'm loving this thread?  I know its impossible to cover "the basics" in 5 CDs but I really like everyone's take on what to include.  For what its worth, when we do listening throughout the year the kids seem to latch on to most of the stuff I play (once I provide some historical context/insight).

Another thing which meseems is a great key to it is, have the kids attend a live performance.  Seeing the music as the precise coordination of the efforts of a hundred people, and hearing the music, and connecting the two, is much more engaging than the partly imaginary activity of a recording coming out of speakers.

[DavidRoss]

Another thing which meseems is a great key to it is, have the kids attend a live performance.  Seeing the music as the precise coordination of the efforts of a hundred people, and hearing the music, and connecting the two, is much more engaging than the partly imaginary activity of a recording coming out of speakers.

Amen.  Our younger (whose point of entry was the Rach 2--whoduthunk?) thought he had little or no use for (a) baroque music, (b) string music, and (c) Vivaldi's music in particular (you know how the young tend to adopt attitudes they think fashionable!) until we dragged him to a performance by a HIP baroque speciality group that included some Vivaldi.  Bingo! 

[ChamberNut]

Some great lists out there! 

I'd like to suggest perhaps 1 CD of Opera Overtures and Preludes?

[karlhenning]

This may possibly incur the wrath of Schumann who scorned "empty virtuosity" (whatever that might be) . . . but the delight in experiencing at firsthand the skill of a fine performer (or of a fine ensemble) is a valid form of musical delight.

(whose point of entry was the Rach 2--whoduthunk?)

Before I had ever heard a note of that concerto, a schoolmate of mine in 6th grade was waxing enthusiastic about having heard this the evening before on the radio.  So I take Rakhmaninov's powers of attraction seriously, indeed.

[Szykneij]

Amen.  Our younger (whose point of entry was the Rach 2--whoduthunk?) thought he had little or no use for (a) baroque music, (b) string music, and (c) Vivaldi's music in particular (you know how the young tend to adopt attitudes they think fashionable!) until we dragged him to a performance by a HIP baroque speciality group that included some Vivaldi.  Bingo! 

Excellent! I'm not surprised he was drawn to the Vivaldi. Younger kids do like the older stuff, especially chestnuts they may have heard somewhere before. I've never had a group respond negatively to Mozart. The Eine Kleine Nachtmusik is usually very well-received.

If you look at the pieces Hornteacher has had previous success with, it shows that kids do enjoy works with nice melodies, traditional harmonies, and standard meters.

Their favorites year after year tend to be The Seasons, Beethoven's 5th, Dvorak's 9th, The Nutcracker, The Planets, Copland's Rodeo, and Steve Reich's Clapping Music.

[rappy]

The ones who suggest Stravinsky and Stockhausen don't seem to have much experience with inexperienced listeners. When we listened to the Rite of Spring at school, nobody liked it except the ones who knew it already and had some experience with classical music. In fact, the others did hate it. They said that it would make them aggressive and nervous.

I'd recommend Strauss' Eine Alpensinfonie (with Karajan/BPO) for the following reasons:

- it's LOUD
- it has got a program which the 12-years-old can understand
- it's late-romanticism (the most popular era I guess, if you look at film music for example)
- it is cheerful and bright
- it is impressive

[karlhenning]

The ones who suggest Stravinsky and Stockhausen don't seem to have much experience with inexperienced listeners. When we listened to the Rite of Spring at school, nobody liked it except the ones who knew it already and had some experience with classical music. In fact, the others did hate it. They said that it would make them aggressive and nervous.

What makes you think that I cannot have had experience with inexperienced listeners who, in fact, responded positively to Le sacre?

Let's say it for the thousandth time, folks:  Not everyone responds to music the same.

I'll repeat that: Not everyone responds to music the same.

I'll repeat that: Not everyone responds to music the same.

I'll repeat that: Not everyone responds to music the same.

[ChamberNut]

What about a Dvorak tone poem?  The Noonday Witch, perhaps?

[rappy]

What makes you think that I cannot have had experience with inexperienced listeners who, in fact, responded positively to Le sacre?

Nothing, I just think it's very unlikely since I've never met an inexperienced and young listener who responded positively to the Rite of Spring. But of course you can try it.

[Bogey]

Their favorites year after year tend to be The Seasons, Beethoven's 5th, Dvorak's 9th, The Nutcracker, The Planets, Copland's Rodeo, and Steve Reich's Clapping Music.

Not familiar with the clapping, but the rest might just do the trick.  Another angle might be to see if any local symphony is performing a program for "youth" like they do here in Colorado each year.  Acquire their playlist and use that as a guide and then go and see the music performed live with your students.  When they perform these concerts here, the conductor usually discusses each piece prior to performing them.  Just another thought.

http://www.coloradosymphony.org/default.asp

[DavidRoss]

Nothing, I just think it's very unlikely since I've never met an inexperienced and young listener who responded positively to the Rite of Spring. But of course you can try it.

What makes you think your limited imagination and experience are normative, especially in light of the experiences others recount here?

[rappy]

Oh, maybe it's not as limited as you think. There have been so many people whom I wanted to show the beauty of Classical music. The more and more I tried, the better I got to know what people like.
So what is it?
My experience is that Chopin does always work, especially for women. Mozart works best for older people (better than Haydn it seems. A couple of people claim that he has no melodies apart from the Adagio of #94 and the German national anthem). Bad choices are Bach, Brahms and Mahler (except the Adagio of the Fifth, which women seem to prefer). Tchaikovsky is good, but since the symphonies are too long and sad, take either the Suites, the Capriccio Italien or the Polonaise from Eugene Onegin. The Piano Concerto might work too, but only the beginning.
Now let's come to the 20th century. My experience is that most 20th century music will be considered as being ugly. There are only a few exceptions: so is the slow movement of Shostakovich's 2nd piano concerto (while the following is to aggressive) or Prokofiev's Peter and the Wolf.

Remember what people expect from Classical music: being able to sleep (or at least to read) while listening.

Of course for 12-years-old it's slightly different.

[karlhenning]

Oh, maybe it's not as limited as you think. There have been so many people whom I wanted to show the beauty of Classical music. The more and more I tried, the better I got to know what people like.
So what is it?

Your sampling is statistically small, and probably not all that diverse.

It is just as much within my experience that people with little experience of classical music respond positively to Stravinsky.

[karlhenning]

Remember what people expect from Classical music: being able to sleep (or at least to read) while listening.

It is baffling that you have the nerve to offer this as a binding generalization.

[Philoctetes]

It is baffling that you have the nerve to offer this as a binding generalization.

How is that so? I think we all are guilty of such a crime. In regards to Stravinsky; I still find him boring.

[karlhenning]

It is baffling that you have the nerve to offer this as a binding generalization.

How is that so? I think we all are guilty of such a crime.

Apples and oranges (as you ought to know).  The fact that many of us have at times used classical music to drift off to sleep by, is one thing.  Asserting that this is the controlling characteristic of the literature, is another.

In regards to Stravinsky; I still find him boring.

I still find your opinion on Stravinsky lacking in either interest or applicability

[Philoctetes]

How is that so? I think we all are guilty of such a crime.


Apples and oranges (as you ought to know).  The fact that many of us have at times used classical music to drift off to sleep by, is one thing.  Asserting that this is the controlling characteristic of the literature, is another.

I still find your opinion on Stravinsky lacking in either interest or applicability

Well my first statement was simply meant to be ironic. I have yet to find a generalization that I didn't like, I think someone once said, but my memory has long since forgotten names, such names.

Well it really only applies and interests me. So..