What were you listening to? (CLOSED)

[The new erato]

Violin Concerto in D (1931)
Stravinsky's Neo-Baroque concerto following the Bach model. Mutter's fresh & invigorating performance is my favorite for this work,
and the balance between orchestra & soloist is just perfect exhuding enjoyment.
total time: 21'11

I think this used to be available in a cheap 3 CD box of Mutter playing modern violin concertoes.

Now playing:



I've got a few issues of this series clogging up my listening pile.

[Kullervo]

Two of the songs are settings of Apollinaire, who I've been reading a bit lately.

[M forever]

Richard Strauss: Eine Alpensinfonie (Karajan)

Am dreaming of the Kempe for the future!

If you have internet access, you can easily make your dream come true by ordering the Kempe box set! That's 9 CDs of "reference" quality performances for not too much money.

[The new erato]

'Reference quality'...no wonder so many people ignore you.   
Even your posts don't reach 'reference quality' any more, so I've joined the mass of posters who put you on their pay no mind list.

What's wrong with Kempe's Strauss besides it being recommended by someone you obviously don't like?

[M forever]

That's a bizarre post. Kempe's recordings are very widely (not just by me) regarded as exemplary, and anyone who knows Strauss can see why. The orchestra's playing is stylistically dead on, as "idiomatic" as it can be, and it preservs a very authentic way of playing this music that goes directly back to Strauss whose favorite band it was. Kempe had also grown up in that same tradition and knew the pieces and the performing style extremely well, plus he was a great conductor who could shape these pieces in a very organic, natural way. This EMI box set is one of the great treasures of recording history. Incidentally, it was my first bass teacher who played in the BP for over 4 decades who first pointed me to these recordings, saying something like "I think we play Strauss quite well, but not quite as well as they play it in Dresden, so you should listen to these recordings, that's how it goes".

[George]

Dvorak
American SQ
Supraphon

Thanks, Buddy! 

[George]

Richard Strauss: Eine Alpensinfonie (Karajan)

Am dreaming of the Kempe for the future!

I guess even the angels must desire to leave heaven once and awhile, knowing that they can return anytime they wish.  0:)

[Haffner]

That's a bizarre post. Kempe's recordings are very widely (not just by me) regarded as exemplary, and anyone who knows Strauss can see why. The orchestra's playing is stylistically dead on, as "idiomatic" as it can be, and it preservs a very authentic way of playing this music that goes directly back to Strauss whose favorite band it was. Kempe had also grown up in that same tradition and knew the pieces and the performing style extremely well, plus he was a great conductor who could shape these pieces in a very organic, natural way. This EMI box set is one of the great treasures of recording history. Incidentally, it was my first bass teacher who played in the BP for over 4 decades who first pointed me to these recordings, saying something like "I think we play Strauss quite well, but not quite as well as they play it in Dresden, so you should listen to these recordings, that's how it goes".

Okay, the Kempe Strauss box is looking MANDATORY now. I only knew the Naxos (not so great) and Karajan (much better...of course). But now I'm ready for another interpretation.

[Haffner]

I guess even the angels must desire to leave heaven once and awhile, knowing that they can return anytime they wish.  0:)

The Karajan Alpensinfonie that Groovemaster G-Daddy-Dawg sent me is the first recording that made the piece RESONATE (note the capitol letters) in me. After having been weirded out by what was for me an uninspirational Strauss on Naxos, the Karajan set was pure bliss. This morning I listened all the way through the Karajan recording for the eleventh time and was just floored all over again.

However, I admit to a) not having the actual score handy and b) not having heard any other interpretation. The b) I'll be taking care of very soon (another, generous poster is helping me). The a) is a hop skip and jump to the local library. From M.'s comments on the scoring, I'm very curious as to how much room for interpretation there really is. I seem to recall Strauss as being more lenient score-wise than, say, WAGNER (laughing).

[George]

[Peregrine]

Symphony No.5:



Can't stop listening to this set lately, in fact, I'm having a bit of a Mravinsky fest' at present

[M forever]

The Karajan Alpensinfonie that Groovemaster G-Daddy-Dawg sent me is the first recording that made the piece RESONATE (note the capitol letters) in me. After having been weirded out by what was for me an uninspirational Strauss on Naxos, the Karajan set was pure bliss. This morning I listened all the way through the Karajan recording for the eleventh time and was just floored all over again.

However, I admit to a) not having the actual score handy and b) not having heard any other interpretation. The b) I'll be taking care of very soon (another, generous poster is helping me). The a) is a hop skip and jump to the local library. From M.'s comments on the scoring, I'm very curious as to how much room for interpretation there really is. I seem to recall Strauss as being more lenient score-wise than, say, WAGNER (laughing).

You keep going on and on and on and on about the Karajan recording, but you really should get to know some other recordings, including the concert DVD which, as I keep saying, is much, much more representative of what that actually sounded like than the totally screwed up sound on the DG disc. I don't know which Naxos you are referring to or if Naxos even have several recordings of this piece, but if you are talking about the Wit recording, all I have to say is, listen again. That is a very, very good recording, musically very stylish and really well played and recorded. It may not be as "in your face" as the Karajan recording is in many of the louder moments, but there is a ton of great musical detail in there, and the colorful, vibrant playing of the orchestra and the very expressive phrasing make this actually much better than the Karajan recording in some aspects. There is no "of course" there - only because it is Karajan and the BP, that doesn't make it "of course" better than a less well known conductor and orchestra. You should listen to the musical details, not just apply a prejudice about the performers. It will definitely enrichen your understanding and enjoyment of the piece.
If you want to check out some very worthwhile other alternatives apart from Kempe, I would highly recommend WP/Thielemann (DG), Maazel/SOBR (from a mostly overlooked, very good Strauss series on RCA), and also the video of the SD with Sinopoli playing this piece which was dedicated to them by Strauss in their 450th anniversary concert. His DG recording is also very good, but I would recommend these other ones first.
To hear the BP in this piece, apart from the Karajan video, it would be much better to listen to Mehta's recording on Sony which was made only a few years after the Karajan, but it is drastically better recorded. Mehta also made a rather good recording in the 70s with the LAP which also sounds decent and is easily found for little money on Decca.

[Haffner]

You keep going on and on and on and on about the Karajan recording, but you really should get to know some other recordings, including the concert DVD which, as I keep saying, is much, much more representative of what that actually sounded like than the totally screwed up sound on the DG disc. I don't know which Naxos you are referring to or if Naxos even have several recordings of this piece, but if you are talking about the Wit recording, all I have to say is, listen again. That is a very, very good recording, musically very stylish and really well played and recorded. It may not be as "in your face" as the Karajan recording is in many of the louder moments, but there is a ton of great musical detail in there, and the colorful, vibrant playing of the orchestra and the very expressive phrasing make this actually much better than the Karajan recording in some aspects. There is no "of course" there - only because it is Karajan and the BP, that doesn't make it "of course" better than a less well known conductor and orchestra. You should listen to the musical details, not just apply a prejudice about the performers. It will definitely enrichen your understanding and enjoyment of the piece.
If you want to check out some very worthwhile other alternatives apart from Kempe, I would highly recommend WP/Thielemann (DG), Maazel/SOBR (from a mostly overlooked, very good Strauss series on RCA), and also the video of the SD with Sinopoli playing this piece which was dedicated to them by Strauss in their 450th anniversary concert. His DG recording is also very good, but I would recommend these other ones first.
To hear the BP in this piece, apart from the Karajan video, it would be much better to listen to Mehta's recording on Sony which was made only a few years after the Karajan, but it is drastically better recorded. Mehta also made a rather good recording in the 70s with the LAP which also sounds decent and is easily found for little money on Decca.

I was wrong about the Naxos, it was the awful junk pictured below. I've seen the Karajan dvd of Die Alpensinfonie (I neglected to mention that), so I believe I did a poor job editing my last post, my fault entirely. I didn't like the Karajan dvd, but I do like the cd alot (again, this is coming from a person whom hasn't heard many recordings of the piece, or seen it even once in a live performance).

I admired your comments in regard to trying out performers whom are reaching for a different set of dynamics than Karajan. Karajan is "of course" not without his faults. I have a hard time listening to his LvB 9th from 1962 after hearing the 1942 Furtwangler, for instance. And I believe that has alot to do with the dynamic variable I mentioned above.

I am getting very interested in the Sinopoli dvd, which you described very well in more than one other post.

Thank you for the reccomendations. You've seen at least one excellent live performance of the piece, which makes your opinion easier (in my opinion) to absorb.

[karlhenning]

Manfred 

A piece of Tchaikovsky's which really ought to be more central to the repertory, I think.

[karlhenning]

#8

I really like this reading of the Eighth.

[karlhenning]

Karl Henning, The Passion according to St. John Op. 92.

After having heard, this year alone, other `modern' Passions by: Pärt, Penderecki, Gubaidulina, Rihm, Tan Dun, Golijov, Swerts, Charles Wood, Distler, Pepping, Frank Martin, Ginastera, Mauricio Kagel, I think it is time for Henning to crown the series. Am enjoying it very much so far. 

(* fingers crossed *)

[karlhenning]

Hindemith, Paul (1895-1963) - Viola Orchestral Works w/ Brett Dean on the instrument - I've always loved the Kammermusik works of this composer (and have the No. 5 in another set), but the other works are new (and enjoyable) to me - 

Oh, I do like this disc a great deal, too.

[M forever]

I was wrong about the Naxos, it was the awful junk pictured below.

Well, I wouldn't call the Barenboim recording "awful junk", it is after all solidly and professionally done. The orchestra just doesn't have the richness of sound and flexibility of expression needed to really do this music justice. It has to be played like complex chamber music, not executed like an orchestral blockbuster. Interestingly, I used this recording in a blind listening game on RMCR once and it was rather negatively reviewed and unfavorably compared to some of the other candidates, especially Stein's recording with the Bamberger Symphoniker which is another good recommendation, BTW, despite the slightly harsh sound. Some of the posters called that one "obviously echt-Straussian" or something like that. But when the mystery performers were revealed, there was suddenly a lot of backtracking and rewriting of earlier opinions, especially with regards to the Barenboim recording.

I didn't like the Karajan dvd, but I do like the cd alot (again, this is coming from a person whom hasn't heard many recordings of the piece, or seen it even once in a live performance).

How come?

I admired your comments in regard to trying out performers whom are reaching for a different set of dynamics than Karajan. Karajan is "of course" not without his faults.

Well, the main problem with the Karajan disc is not really his "set of dynamics", nor the actual performance, although in the live concerts, it was a much more musical performance - when they did the recording, they had intensely rehearsed the music, but Karajan had never conducted it live at that point. The nature of Karajan's "method" was that things, as meticulously as he rehearsed, were allowed to develop over a series of performances until they came to a point when everything just naturally "happened" by itself in performance (Karajan was deeply into Zen, although he didn't talk as much about it as Celibidache, but OTOH, unlike Celibidache, I think he actually understood the concept), and when they taped this alpensinfonie, they simply weren't at that point yet.
Still, the main problem is the harsh, congested, blary, screechy sound which really doesn't do the orchestra justice and which has an aggressive, claustrophobic quality which isn't what that sounded like at all (thankfully).

Thank you for the reccomendations. You've seen at least one excellent live performance of the piece, which makes your opinion easier (in my opinion) to absorb.

I heard it twice with Karajan (they played the piece very often in the years after the recording and really got much deeper into it because of that (see above), the concert which is on the DVD, and on another occasion. In this piece, I also heard the BP under Mehta (when they made the Sony recording), Haitink, and Jansons (though not all at the same time!), the SD with Sinopoli, the Gewandhausorchester and the RSB Berlin with Janowski, the NDR SO with Perick, the ECYO with Ashkenazy, the MDR SO with Luisi (who is now in Dresden and actually has made a very good recording there recently of the Alpensinfonie for Sony). I only played it on one occasion myself, that was in the Staatskapelle Weimar (the orchestra that's on the Naxos disc with Wit) with Zagrosek.

[Haffner]

Well, I wouldn't call the Barenboim recording "awful junk", it is after all solidly and professionally done. The orchestra just doesn't have the richness of sound and flexibility of expression needed to really do this music justice. It has to be played like complex chamber music, not executed like an orchestral blockbuster. Interestingly, I used this recording in a blind listening game on RMCR once and it was rather negatively reviewed and unfavorably compared to some of the other candidates, especially Stein's recording with the Bamberger Symphoniker which is another good recommendation, BTW, despite the slightly harsh sound. Some of the posters called that one "obviously echt-Straussian" or something like that. But when the mystery performers were revealed, there was suddenly a lot of backtracking and rewriting of earlier opinions, especially with regards to the Barenboim recording.

I think my problem was mainly with the sound on the Barenboim/Strauss. But I did hear a rather subdued...sluggish-sounding brass section as well. But hey, I can only criticise so much, I don't have the score yet. Maybe sluggish is what Strauss wanted in his horn section. Also, the recording can sound far away and often just plain strangely compressed.

How come?

I'm going to amend/reserve my view of the Strauss/Karajan dvd because I listened to it on a pair of supa-cheap Magnavox speakers. I'm going to give it another whirl with my newer Logitech 5.1s soon and I'll get back to you on it. Yes, I imagine there will be quite a difference.

Well, the main problem with the Karajan disc is not really his "set of dynamics", nor the actual performance, although in the live concerts, it was a much more musical performance - when they did the recording, they had intensely rehearsed the music, but Karajan had never conducted it live at that point. The nature of Karajan's "method" was that things, as meticulously as he rehearsed, were allowed to develop over a series of performances until they came to a point when everything just naturally "happened" by itself in performance (Karajan was deeply into Zen, although he didn't talk as much about it as Celibidache, but OTOH, unlike Celibidache, I think he actually understood the concept), and when they taped this alpensinfonie, they simply weren't at that point yet.
Still, the main problem is the harsh, congested, blary, screechy sound which really doesn't do the orchestra justice and which has an aggressive, claustrophobic quality which isn't what that sounded like at all (thankfully).

I heard it twice with Karajan (they played the piece very often in the years after the recording and really got much deeper into it because of that (see above), the concert which is on the DVD, and on another occasion. In this piece, I also heard the BP under Mehta (when they made the Sony recording), Haitink, and Jansons (though not all at the same time!), the SD with Sinopoli, the Gewandhausorchester and the RSB Berlin with Janowski, the NDR SO with Perick, the ECYO with Ashkenazy, the MDR SO with Luisi (who is now in Dresden and actually has made a very good recording there recently of the Alpensinfonie for Sony). I only played it on one occasion myself, that was in the Staatskapelle Weimar (the orchestra that's on the Naxos disc with Wit) with Zagrosek.

Impressive-sounding performances, I'm jealous.

Interesting also about Celibidache/Karajan. I still find their individual Bruckner recordings to be fascinating. I'm glad you mentioned Celibidache especially, as I haven't spun his Beethoven 9th yet and I really should...

After reading these posts, I'm even more excited to get the Kempe box.

[SonicMan46]

Oh, I do like this disc a great deal, too.

Karl - my second listening to this CD and agree completely!  I really enjoy this composer & already have many of his works - a great addition! - Dave