McCain Veep Is Woman

[Don]

My question about your "values and concerns" was very direct, but there is nothing disrespectful or "impolite" about asking whether or not you think the war issue is something that fits with your "values". It's just that it was an unpleasant question which you simply didn't want to answer, that's it.

You're so wrong.  It would be a good idea for you to read what I write.  I clearly stated, subsequent to your insults, that I never supported the invasion or occupation of Iraq.  However, that doesn't mean that I will vote for a person simply because he states he will end that war and occupation.  I have two reasons:

1.  There are many other issues that concern me - education, energy, environment, economics, health care/insurance, abortion rights, tax policy, how we think of ourselves and act in the international community, etc.

2.  Obama has not been rock-steady concerning his views on leaving Iraq.  Put another way, I am not convinced he would really end it.  Also, the Democratic Congress said it would end the war; we know that didn't happen.

The only significant difference I see between your views and mine concerning Iraq is that you put this issue way above all others.

[M forever]

Well, I am a foreigner, so according to you, I am not supposed to have an opinion about that anyway.

You call this an insult? It's a direct question, but not a personal attack, and a statement of my opinion. I don't see much insult material there. Except that you were probably insulted by a foreigner showing the arrogance to have a critical opinion about something like that.
So your values do not include that it's not OK to randomly attack other countries for obvious political agendas? If I was an US citizen, getting rid of that government would be my most urgent concern.

[PSmith08]

I am curious what you think about Obama's qualifications, especially considering he ran most of his primary campaign as an "outsider".

I'm not all that impressed by Senator Obama's qualifications. He would have made a great governor of Illinois, especially considering the last couple they've had. He seems like an adequate senator, but an adequate senator does not a good president make. Look at Lyndon Johnson, who was one of the most effective and powerful senators this country has seen: his presidency does not seem to jive with his Senate career. Gerald Ford is another example of a great legislator becoming, for various reasons, a mediocre president.

In any event, the whole outsider mystique is a post-Nixon response to the abuses of power and process that the consummate insiders affected during their tenure. The problem is that outsiders don't know how Washington and the Federal government really work. Unless one has the right connections and the right people backing one's projects and initiatives, the process of getting idea to statute or United States Code can be slow and painful. Heck, if you're on bad terms with the wrong committee chairman, you might as well forget your project. Outsiders need to know, from Day 1, who they need to befriend and who they need to avoid.

In order to do that, they need to sell out and mortgage their credentials with an insider who will be discreet but useful. Like Joe Biden.

[Don]

Well, I am a foreigner, so according to you, I am not supposed to have an opinion about that anyway.

Rubbish from your end.  I never said in any form that you're not supposed to have an opinion.  What's wrong with you?

[Wendell_E]

There is one word which I don't understand though: at 10:55, he says "their answer to everything is:" and I don't understand what the one word answer is.

"It's like on education, you know, their answer to everything is vouchers".

[Don]

Well, I am a foreigner, so according to you, I am not supposed to have an opinion about that anyway.

So your values do not include that it's not OK to randomly attack other countries for obvious political agendas? If I was an US citizen, getting rid of that government would be my most urgent concern.

Yes, I considered the above insulting and still do.  If you can't see it, there's little hope for you.  This is a shame, because I usually have much respect for you, but you keep insulting folks here on a continuous basis such as often telling other posters that they have nothing of value to contribute.

[M forever]

So it offends your sensibility when I ask you that directly, but it does not offend your sensibility that your government wages this war which has gotten many thousands of people on both sides (well, you probably don't give a damn about the people on the other side, after all, they are just foreigners)? Interesting.

[Homo Aestheticus]

Yes, I considered the above insulting and still do.  If you can't see it, there's little hope for you.  This is a shame, because I usually have much respect for you, but you keep insulting folks here on a continuous basis such as often telling other posters that they have nothing of value to contribute.

Yes this is true.

A couple of months ago he personally insulted me and also said that I know nothing about music.

[M forever]

You sound like the Pink Harp. If you are, then I was right when I said that.

[Don]

So it offends your sensibility when I ask you that directly, but it does not offend your sensibility that your government wages this war which has gotten many thousands of people on both sides (well, you probably don't give a damn about the people on the other side, after all, they are just foreigners)? Interesting.

Well, I've tried to meet you half-way, but you won't have any of it.  Since you clearly will continue to behave like a petulant child, I've decided to eliminate you from my cyber-space life.  Goodbye and best wishes (wherever you reside).

[PSmith08]

So it offends your sensibility when I ask you that directly, but it does not offend your sensibility that your government wages this war which has gotten many thousands of people on both sides (well, you probably don't give a damn about the people on the other side, after all, they are just foreigners)? Interesting.

If your sensibilities are offended by the romp in Mesopotamia, I heartily suggest that you either avoid learning much about most of the conflicts in which the United States has participated since 1896, or that you recalibrate your delicate sensibilities to include a little toughness. Indeed, given some of the non-military interventions done in the name of the Republic, the adventure by the waters of Babylon is positively transparent. For your own sake, under no circumstances should you Google "Salvador Allende." You'd be driven to apoplexy.

Of course, given Gov. Sarah Palin's excess of toughness, I submit that, if she's given anywhere near the power held by then-Vice President Richard Nixon over U.S. covert activities, we ain't seen nothing yet.

[M forever]

We aren't talking about the US government in 1896, and we aren't talking about Allende either. We are talking about the here and now, what is happening now, what the current government does.
So what one thinks about the current war in Iraq is not an ethical/political question, but just a matter of toughness? So if people talk about German history and the holocaust, should I just say, "guys, get a little tougher and forget about it"?

Of course, given Gov. Sarah Palin's excess of toughness, I submit that, if she's given anywhere near the power held by then-Vice President Richard Nixon over U.S. covert activities, we ain't seen nothing yet.

No doubt, she would send commandos after her ex-brother-in-law, and also after that unruly librarian.

[greg]

Another M against the world thread.


lol.......

[Catison]

We aren't talking about the US government in 1896, and we aren't talking about Allende either. We are talking about the here and now, what is happening now, what the current government does.
So what one thinks about the current war in Iraq is not an ethical/political question, but just a matter of toughness? So if people talk about German history and the holocaust, should I just say, "guys, get a little tougher and forget about it"?

I had an ex-girlfriend who basically twisted everything I said around to make it sound bad.  Needless to say, she was dumped.  You're worse than her.

Its not really that hard to twist everything people say.  Use the words "so its just" and "all you think is", etc.   However, most of us have the sense not to be so callous.

[M forever]

I didn't twist anything there. All that material is straight from the post I replied to.

I have question for you, though: why do you meddle in this without actually contributing to the discussion? Do you just want to stir up things?

[Joe_Campbell]

No doubt, she would send commandos after her ex-brother-in-law, and also after that unruly librarian.

Or send in that unruly librarian to rescue her ex-brother-in-law

btw, almost no-one has actually contributed to 'the discussion' for a few pages now (if, by 'the discussion,' you mean the original topic).

[Catison]

I didn't twist anything there. All that material is straight from the post I replied to.

I have question for you, though: why do you meddle in this without actually contributing to the discussion? Do you just want to stir up things?

Well, I actually have been contributing.  But you know, I'm just a foreigner to this conversation, so I have no right to have an opinion, right?

[M forever]

Or send in that unruly librarian to rescue her ex-brother-in-law

btw, almost no-one has actually contributed to 'the discussion' for a few pages now (if, by 'the discussion,' you mean the original topic).

Well, I think the war and all that is a very important subject. In my opinion, the Republicans should be given the bill for all the bad stuff they did and sent packing. As many here have pointed out, this kind of election isn't about fine political points nor really about political views and programs, it's a simple A/B decision, and I think there is so much that speaks against the Republicans after 8 years of Bush - and basically everyone I know personally massively complains about all that -, that it is simply time for them to vacate the White House. If it was the other way around, BTW, I would think the same.
Furthermore, in the campaign, especially the Republicans pose as keepers of "values" and they make a big deal out of being against abortion and "pro life". On the other hand, they got a lot of people killed in a very dubious war. How "ethical" and "pro life" is that?

[Homo Aestheticus]

Furthermore, in the campaign, especially the Republicans pose as keepers of "values" and they make a big deal out of being against abortion and "pro life". On the other hand, they got a lot of people killed in a very dubious war. How "ethical" and "pro life" is that?

True.

By the way, the Republicans are not and have never been pro-life, they are  pro-birth.

Big difference.

[PSmith08]

We aren't talking about the US government in 1896, and we aren't talking about Allende either. We are talking about the here and now, what is happening now, what the current government does.
So what one thinks about the current war in Iraq is not an ethical/political question, but just a matter of toughness? So if people talk about German history and the holocaust, should I just say, "guys, get a little tougher and forget about it"?

You're missing the point. You act as though the Iraq war is the greatest atrocity ever committed by the Republic, largely because you refuse to accept history for what it is, and, thus, the malefactors should be run out of town on a rail straight to the Hague. The United States has done far worse things to all manner of people, often its own citizens or people who trusted the United States, and a little perspective would show what a ridiculous enterprise this fling in the Fertile Crescent really is. With a little context and a dash of what the Romans called virtus, the whole problem falls into place nicely and with a minimum of emotional torment.

No doubt, she would send commandos after her ex-brother-in-law, and also after that unruly librarian.

And if the commandos refused to carry out her whims, she'd just fire their leader, as opposed to wondering why a responsible civil servant would balk at such a request.