Schumann and Old Pianists

[ezodisy]

Absolutely. Whenever it's about Schumann, everyone is talking about Carnaval or Kreisleriana. Late this summer someone told me she's playing Davidsbundlertanze on the piano, and I was just awestruck.

Who is she? Tipo?

[Superhorn]

  While there are no doubt some wonderful old recordings of Schumann's piano music, I don't think they're necessarily better than those of today's many wonderful pianists.
  But than again, I have never been one of those nostalgia ridden classical music fans who will wax ecstatic over any old recording and cynically dismiss and disparage modern musicians and recordings, even if they're truly great.
  This kind of knee-jerk idealization of the past has always irritated me.
  However, I would recommend a 4 CD set of assorted Schumann piano wors by the late Wilhelm Kempff. Kempff had this music in his blood and I have never heard it more beautifully played. I don't know if this DG set is still available, but fans of Schumann's piano music should grab it if they can find it.

[Herman]

Who is she? Tipo?

No, sorry I was unclear. I was just having a semi-inebriated chat with a couple of colleagues about music and one of 'em, a woman, said she preferred Schumann's DBT, and said she played it a lot on the piano, which I found rather awestriking, to be able to do that on the side.

Superhorn: glad you like Kempff's Schumann. Unfortunately there are very few Schumann recordings from Kempff's younger (and perhaps more Schumannesque passionate) days. There are some in a Original Masters Box if I recall.

[ezodisy]

  While there are no doubt some wonderful old recordings of Schumann's piano music, I don't think they're necessarily better than those of today's many wonderful pianists.
  But than again, I have never been one of those nostalgia ridden classical music fans who will wax ecstatic over any old recording and cynically dismiss and disparage modern musicians and recordings, even if they're truly great.
  This kind of knee-jerk idealization of the past has always irritated me.

well that's all very well and noble and stuff but you haven't named anyone. Please go ahead............*sharpens knives*

[Superhorn]

   Gosh !  There are so many critics who have routinely praised famous musicians of the past and cynically pooh-poohed today's musicians I don't know where to begin.  How about the late Harold c Schonberg, Greg Sandow,
Albert Innaurato, the late Samuel Lipman, Peter g Davis, and so many others.
  One of the paradoxes of their criticism is the claim that today's musicians have little or no"individuality", are cookie cutter interpreters, and are too pedantically literal in their performances. Also, Schonberg routinely complained that tempi today are"too slow", and deridided the"Lethargic performances of today".
 
   Yet these same critics are constantly lambasting today's musicians for taking uncalled for liberties with the music, and some have criticized performers for tempi that were TOO  FAST. Some other critics today have complained that, under the influence of HIP, tempi have gotten TOO FAST.  Now wait a second.
Either everything today is too slow, or too fast. They both can't be true.
  And if classical musicians are too literal and lacking in individuality, why are there so many reviews in which they are taken to task for all the liberties they take with the music? Something just doesn't add up.
 
Let's face it; these critics apply a double standard in reviewing old vs new recordings, and live performances today. They excoriate contemporary musicians for making the very kind of interpretive choices they would have praised musicians of the past for.

   There's a knee-jerk tendency among many classical music critics to idealize the past. An honorable exception is Anthony Tommasini of the New York Times, who is admirably generous in his praise of famous musicians today, and promising newcomers. Yet he also admires great musicians of the past.

[Drasko]

   Gosh !  There are so many critics who have routinely praised famous musicians of the past and cynically pooh-poohed today's musicians I don't know where to begin.  How about the late Harold c Schonberg, Greg Sandow,
Albert Innaurato, the late Samuel Lipman, Peter g Davis, and so many others.
 

I somehow don't think ezodisy's query was pointed toward critics, but pianists, I'll venture a guess he was expecting you to reply something like: those ancient pianists like *here you name some names* aren't worth bothering with because this wonderful new generation of *again some names* play even better (and even finer details would always be welcome).

*then come the knives*   

[Superhorn]

  I  didn't mean to say that today's pianists are better than those of the past.
That would be extremely fatuous.  There are great pianists period, past and present.

   There are a lot of wonderful pianists today.  Thibaudet, Hamelin, Perahia, Argerich, Zimerman, Barenboim, (still a terrific pianist despite all his conducting engagements), Kissin, Bronfman, Toradze, Brendel (okay, he just  retired),
Pletnev, Uchida, Schiff, and so many others.

  There are also many very gifted youngsters who have the potential to achieve greatness.

[Josquin des Prez]

Yeah, but are there any great ones. Of the ones you mentioned, only Zimerman seems to be good enough to pass the test. Maybe. Besides, your argument has no leg to stand on since the OP never said that older pianists are better then modern ones or displayed any form of knee-jerk idealization of the past. He was talking about Schumann recordings.

[ezodisy]

   There are a lot of wonderful pianists today.  Thibaudet, Hamelin, Perahia, Argerich, Zimerman, Barenboim, (still a terrific pianist despite all his conducting engagements), Kissin, Bronfman, Toradze, Brendel (okay, he just  retired),
Pletnev, Uchida, Schiff, and so many others.

Milos - duck.

But we're talking about Schumann. Toradze doesn't play Schumann--thank god--and neither do most of the others you mentioned. I guess Herman would say the only one on that list who has done anything really great with Schumann is Perahia in his early recording. Not really a list of contemporary Schumann pianists.

  There are also many very gifted youngsters who have the potential to achieve greatness.

If you are really interested, I suggest this contemporary performance:

http://www.amazon.com/Natan-Brand-Concert-1982-1990-Legacy/dp/B0007X9TUC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1226045795&sr=1-1

There's a knee-jerk tendency among many classical music critics to idealize the past.

Well there might be a good reason for this. Hard times can bring the best out of artists -- you don't see many today playing in sub 0 temperatures with fingerless gloves on as Sofronitsky did during the siege. Lots of hard times in the past and lots of raw emotional performances which might have resulted from them. Perhaps we'll get some reactions from the credit crunch?

[Herman]

I guess Herman would say the only one on that list who has done anything really great with Schumann is Perahia in his early recording. Not really a list of contemporary Schumann pianists.

Oh dear. Perahia's seventies recording of the DBT still stands, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure if I'd still be as happy with Uchia's Carnaval and Kissin's Carnegie Hall Etudes Symphoniques  -  just because I haven't gotten around to listening to those cd's for a long time. I would not recommend any of Kissin's recordings since that 2cd. I find both Thibaudet's and Hamelin's recordings virtually unlistenable and uninspiring.

On the other hand, Superhorn, if you're happy with what you've got, just enjoy it.

[Bunny]

There is an Andante box set which is probably still floating around used at one of the Amazons (UK, Germany) which features Clara Haskil, Alfred Cortot, Edwin Fischer, Claudio Arrau, Magda Tagliaferro, Sergei Rachmaninoff (as a performer!), Vladimir Horowitz, Walter Gieseking and Yves Nat.  It's OOP, but well worth finding.

Here's the Amazon ID: B000066TXL

Just plug it into the search box and you should find the set.


Oops, forgot Leopold Godowsky who is also included in the set.

[Holden]

There is an Andante box set which is probably still floating around used at one of the Amazons (UK, Germany) which features Clara Haskil, Alfred Cortot, Edwin Fischer, Claudio Arrau, Magda Tagliaferro, Sergei Rachmaninoff (as a performer!), Vladimir Horowitz, Walter Gieseking and Yves Nat.  It's OOP, but well worth finding.

Here's the Amazon ID: B000066TXL

Just plug it into the search box and you should find the set.


Oops, forgot Leopold Godowsky who is also included in the set.

Very expensive if new ($142) and $75 used.

[Bunny]

Very expensive if new ($142) and $75 used.

Very, very true!  But consider the pianists; it's a collection of truly historic performances.  If you want Schumann played by old (and by that I think we mean historic rather than merely aged) pianists, this set is definitive.  Of course, if one is more concerned with terrific piano playing displayed by the best technology, then this set is not going to do.

[Josquin des Prez]

Thanks for the recommendation Bunny, i'm gonna have to look that up. As far as sonically conscious fans of the composer, there's a recording by Klara Wurtz (a very underrated pianist in my book) which is a labeled "volume one" of what i assume is going to be a traversal of Schuman's entire piano works. The playing is very good, and the sound quality is excellent. Worth looking into it.

[ezodisy]

As far as sonically conscious fans of the composer

Anyone who is truly "sonically conscious" would never listen to a recording in the first place.

[Bunny]

Thanks for the recommendation Bunny, i'm gonna have to look that up. As far as sonically conscious fans of the composer, there's a recording by Klara Wurtz (a very underrated pianist in my book) which is a labeled "volume one" of what i assume is going to be a traversal of Schuman's entire piano works. The playing is very good, and the sound quality is excellent. Worth looking into it.

I'll be sure to check that out!  Thanks for the heads-up.