Music in unlikely keys

[Brian]

I was just thinking, "There really aren't any symphonies in D flat." So I found a list on Wikipedia which points out that there just aren't symphonies in some of the keys, like D flat or F sharp. I also notice that A minor is much more common among violin works and concerti than among symphonies... and that Hubert Parry actually wrote a piano concerto in G flat.

So what music have you heard in "unlikely" keys - unlikely for the instrumentation at hand, or unlikely for the particular category of music? Anything stand out as really cool ... or really odd?

[Mark G. Simon]

I was just thinking, "There really aren't any symphonies in D flat." So I found a list on Wikipedia which points out that there just aren't symphonies in some of the keys, like D flat or F sharp. I also notice that A minor is much more common among violin works and concerti than among symphonies... and that Hubert Parry actually wrote a piano concerto in G flat.

So what music have you heard in "unlikely" keys - unlikely for the instrumentation at hand, or unlikely for the particular category of music? Anything stand out as really cool ... or really odd?

Miaskovsky -- Symphony no. 25 in D flat major.

Mahler -- Symphony no. 10 in F sharp major.

Korngold -- Symphony in F sharp.

I went back and looked at the Wikipedia article and all of these symphonies are listed. The author of the wikipedia article states that Mahler's 10th is "sometimes considered to be in F sharp major". It should be noted that there are 6 sharps in the key signature and after the introductory viola thing (which isn't in any discernable key), the first movement opens and closes unambiguously in F sharp major. The last movement ends in F sharp major. What it should have said in the wikipedia article is that Mahler's 10th is sometimes incorrectly listed as being in F sharp minor.

[karlhenning]

Prokofiev, Symphony No. 6 in E-flat Minor, Opus 111

[Maciek]

Well, due to differences in tuning, most of the classical period pieces we hear today are probably in "unlikely keys". Does that count?

(I have an old, late 19th century piano, and it "automatically" transposes everything half a tone.)

[Cato]

The Mahler Tenth instantly came to mind, as did the Scriabin.

Is there not a Khachaturian Piano Concerto in Db Major?  And I am positive the Rachmaninov First Piano Concerto is in F # Minor.

F# minor is my most favorite key.  How "unusual" it is might be debatable.   0:)

[karlhenning]

And I am positive the Rachmaninov First Piano Concerto is in F # Minor.

Да.

[Mark G. Simon]

Is there not a Khachaturian Piano Concerto in Db Major?

The Prokofiev Piano Concerto no. 1 is in D flat major in any case.

[Mark G. Simon]

The two Chamber Symphonies of Schoenberg are in E major and E flat minor.

[karlhenning]

The Prokofiev Piano Concerto no. 1 is in D flat major in any case.

Тоже правда!

[Florestan]

Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No. 1 in B-flat minor...

[Cato]

Strange coincidence: our school just came back from Mass, where an Alleluia in F# Phrygian was sung, except that the organist ended it in F# MAJOR!   

I hate it when that happens!     

Let the minor alone!  He likes his cave!   

[karlhenning]

Tierce de Pee Wee?

[karlhenning]

Not an unlikely key*, but I was content to let my Fancy on Psalm 80 from the Scottish Psalter conclude with a minor triad . . . .

* D Minor

[bhodges]

I remember how suprised I was, the first time I saw the score to Barber's Adagio for Strings, which is in B-flat minor (5 flats).  My first thought was, What made him decide to use that particular key?

--Bruce

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Bruckner's 7th is the only important symphony I can think of in E major.

The finale (but nothing else) of the Mahler 9th is in Db major.

The slow mvt. of the 23rd Piano Concerto is the only thing Mozart ever wrote in F# minor.

My first thought was, What made him decide to use that particular key?

I think this a lot, not only with odd keys. If Bruckner 7 turned out so well in E major, why aren't there other symphonies in this key? It's still a mystery to me how a composer goes about choosing a tonality.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Well, due to differences in tuning, most of the classical period pieces we hear today are probably in "unlikely keys". Does that count?

Not really. The pieces are still notated and played in the written tonality. After all, there's nothing intrinsic or inevitable in concert A being 415 or 440 or even 465. Today's A may be the Bb of two centuries ago, but the character of the work remains unchanged.

(I have an old, late 19th century piano, and it "automatically" transposes everything half a tone.)

Get it tuned?

[karlhenning]

Get it tuned?

Scottie isn't sure the soundboard can take the tension . . . .

[Mark G. Simon]

If Bruckner 7 turned out so well in E major, why aren't there other symphonies in this key?

As I mentioned earlier, Schoenberg's 1st Chamber Symphony is in E major. Most people think this is a pretty important work.

Haydn wrote two symphonies in E major: no. 12 and 29. Most people would not single these two particular works as important, but they do set a precendent for Bruckner.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

As I mentioned earlier, Schoenberg's 1st Chamber Symphony is in E major. Most people think this is a pretty important work.

Maybe just a prejudice of mine, but I have a hard time considering small-scale chamber symphonies as "real" symphonies.

But what's the problem with E major anyway for big orchestral pieces? Come to think of it, I can't name a concerto in that key, either. 

[Cato]

More thoughts on this topic: Paul Dukas has a long and very worthwhile Piano Sonata in Eb minor.

And I recall seeing years ago an orchestral work by him - is it Sorcerer's Apprentice ? - excerpted in a textbook on orchestration, and it showed a key like B Major which the composer immediately in the very first bar - for some reason - began changing with a flurry of naturals and flats.

The recommendation was NOT to do that!