Haydn's Haus

[Valentino]

I have bought everything by Mosaïques apart from in op. 51 (7 last words...) where I chose Emerson wisely. QM is the  Haydn band anyway.

Kodaly are ok in op. 9, nice I'd say. The Hagen Quartett disc of op. 1/1, 64/4 and 74/3 is a treasure. And the old Hungarian Qt again in 64/4 is nice. I'll see what Nomos can give in op. 50. The teasers sound just right to me.  

[Haffner]

I have bought everything by Mosaïques apart from in op. 51 (7 last words...) where I chose Emerson wisely. QM is the  Haydn band anyway.

Kodaly are ok in op. 9, nice I'd say. The Hagen Quartett disc of op. 1/1, 64/4 and 74/3 is a treasure. And the old Hungarian Qt again in 64/4 is nice. I'll see what Nomos can give in op. 50. The teasers sound just right to me.  

I've had many affirming experiences with QM 20 especially, and their 33, 64 and 76 are quite great as well. Just my opinion.

[Valentino]

You know, Andy. In here it's only about opinions. Some more well funded than others, but still just opinions.

I'd never buy music I didn't like. I might buy music on recommendations made by people I didn't know were lacking my own good taste, though.

[Haffner]

You know, Andy. In here it's only about opinions. Some more well funded than others, but still just opinions.

Was that missing "o" intentional  ?


I guess I worry alot about people getting their flame on. To a degree, I can understand, because let's face it, few things in life provoke such passionate responses as music. But I don't want to come across as though my opinion is better than anyone elses', because it's probably worse.

[Valentino]

Was that missing "o" intentional  ?

No. But English is not my first language, so I don't get all the jokes, and sometimes not all the characters.
What "o"?

[Herman]

I have bought everything by Mosaïques apart from in op. 51 (7 last words...) [...]. QM is the  Haydn band anyway.

What makes you think so? Does this mean there was no good Haydn SQ playing before the Mosaiques started?

[Valentino]

1. My personal opinion.
2. No.

[Herman]

So... next step is how did you arrive at this opinion?

In other words, why do you think the Mosaiques is the Haydn quartet?

What do they do that others don't?

[Haffner]

So... next step is how did you arrive at this opinion?

In other words, why do you think the Mosaiques is the Haydn quartet?

What do they do that others don't?

a)Excellent recorded sound. Everything sounds eq'd perfectly: big yet defined bass, restrained mid, never-scratchy highs.

b) Tight, yet human performances: almost never sloppy with the intonation (just enough "mistakes" to make the performace sound like human beings played the piece, not Pro Tools).

c) The quartet also has a hard-to-describe warmth to their interpretations that carries from one cd to the next. It's like their own personality, and that personality can sound quite individual, while retaining the unique dynamics in Haydn's work. There's never a "blurred " aspect in any of the QM's performances of Haydn. You probably know what I mean by blurred: I think many performers (and the Kodaly has been guilty, as well as the Festetics and Talich to a lesser degree) can find the number of Haydn quartets daunting, and seemt to phone in their performance early to mid period in the set, rushing and/or sleeping through until the classic quartets written after Mozart's death. I've never heard the QM do that.  Listen to their op. 20 and hear/feel the warm sound that they maintain throughout. Very effecting and effective.

Do I think that QM have these qualities and the other performers don't? No. But QM seems to have more of and more consistently overall.

[Lethevich]

Regarding Solomons Haydn - how much was recorded? Presumably a lot more than was issued on the now OOP (other than via Arkiv's reissue) 3 CD Sturm und Drang set?

I've just started listening to some earlier symphonies ripped from LPs, and the 1st sounds very nice, playing with some pep. The problem is the rip sounds like crap, and a lot of Solomons Haydn symphonies seem to have dropped off the face of the earth...

This music is crying out for some kind of budget box reissue - are the rights spread over different labels? Some seem to be on Sony, but the blurb to this vinyl rip says it is from a Saga LP - I think that is a different company rather than a sub-label?

[Sergeant Rock]

These sets were performed by the Concentus Musicus of Vienna instead of the full-sized orchestra, the RCO Harnoncourt conducted for the Schubert Symphonies.  I have always looked at Haydn as a transition figure from baroque to classical and wondered if his symphonies should be performed by a small ensemble instead of a full-sized orchestra ...

Haydn  composed the Paris symphonies for the large Parisian orchestra called "Le Concert de la loge 'Olympique.'" It included 40 violins and ten double basses...a modern sized symphony orchestra, in other words. I don't see any reason for a modern orchestra to scale down...not that I mind hearing the works that way but I think Karajan, Bernstein and Davis's big band approach is just as valid, and we can assume Haydn would approve.

Sarge

[jlaurson]

That was exactly the point I was trying to make.  Concentus Musicus probably has no more than 20-30 members while the BPO or RCO has up to 100 members.  Now when the BPO or RCO plays a Haydn symphony, does it really scale down to the size of a Concentus Musicus?  I doubt it. 

1.) Haydn used orchestras as large as he could get. For most of the Esterhazy Symphonies, that means ~30 and much varied depending to player availability.
Works like the London Symphonies made use of much larger ensembles and a work like the Creation got its official premiere with a quadrupling of winds (and corresponding string body)... which stems, not the least, from Haydn being very impressed with the gargantuan English Oratorio tradition.
2.) Yes, the BPO or RCO do scale down for Haydn -- and Yes, NOT ALL THE WAY. They shouldn't, either, because playing Haydn well is the precondition of playing romantic repertoire well. ("Why Haydn Should be Mandatory")
3.) Concentus Musicus is flexible. When I watched Harnoncourt rehearse them in Haydn Masses in Salzburg this January, they were well over 40 players... maybe even shy above 50.

[alkan]

Regarding Solomons Haydn - how much was recorded? Presumably a lot more than was issued on the now OOP (other than via Arkiv's reissue) 3 CD Sturm und Drang set?

I've just started listening to some earlier symphonies ripped from LPs, and the 1st sounds very nice, playing with some pep. The problem is the rip sounds like crap, and a lot of Solomons Haydn symphonies seem to have dropped off the face of the earth...

This music is crying out for some kind of budget box reissue - are the rights spread over different labels? Some seem to be on Sony, but the blurb to this vinyl rip says it is from a Saga LP - I think that is a different company rather than a sub-label?

In reply to your question, here is what I have

(1) A 3 CD set with nos 42, 45, 46, 47, 51, 65
(2) A 2 CD set with nos 35, 38, 39, 49, 58, 59
(3) A single CD with nos 45 and 48

I heard a rumour that no 26 has also been recorded, but no trace of anything else unfortunately.

Glad to hear that you like them, despite the poor sound quality.       I think there is a cheap CD with 39, 45 and 59 which contains two of my absolute favourites (39 and 45).

[Lethevich]

Thanks I am holding out for the majors to finally get a grip in the next few years and begin to offer entire back catalogues as lossless downloads. If they don't do it soon, they're going to go out of business. This conductor's Haydn is a fine example of the recording industry not working.

[alkan]

Hi Lethe,  could you please check your PM ??    I sending you a message .....

[nut-job]

That was exactly the point I was trying to make.  Concentus Musicus probably has no more than 20-30 members while the BPO or RCO has up to 100 members.  Now when the BPO or RCO plays a Haydn symphony, does it really scale down to the size of a Concentus Musicus?  I doubt it. 

This is the RCO with a decidedly old-school conductor.  We only see the front of the orchestra, but I don't get the impression that there are anywhere near 100 musician on stage?

1.) Haydn used orchestras as large as he could get. For most of the Esterhazy Symphonies, that means ~30 and much varied depending to player availability.
Works like the London Symphonies made use of much larger ensembles and a work like the Creation got its official premiere with a quadrupling of winds (and corresponding string body)... which stems, not the least, from Haydn being very impressed with the gargantuan English Oratorio tradition.

Haydn also wrote differently when he was expecting a performance by a large ensemble.  I think there is an argument for performance by an ensemble of appropriate size.

2.) Yes, the BPO or RCO do scale down for Haydn -- and Yes, NOT ALL THE WAY. They shouldn't, either, because playing Haydn well is the precondition of playing romantic repertoire well. ("Why Haydn Should be Mandatory")

The size of the hall is an issue.  In a large hall a small ensemble sounds inadequate and a big ensemble is necessary.  In a recording the more intimate sound state obtained with a small ensemble can be an advantage.

[Que]

So, what's this then?                                          And this? 

 

Disc I: 6 Scherzandi;                                                                      Content
Discs II & III: Baryton Octets;
Disc IV: 'Concerti a Due Lire' for the King of Naples;
Discs V & VI: Notturni for the King of Naples

Complete content
Review on Classicstoday (Hurwitzer)

Looks like when Manfred Huss went to BIS, the rights of his previous recordings on Koch went along with him.

Q

[Gabriel]

So, what's this then?                                          And this? 

I saw the first set some days ago in a store. I guess I had the same face of joy, Que!

[Harry]

And this

[Gurn Blanston]

So, what's this then?                                          And this? 

 

Disc I: 6 Scherzandi;                                                       

Looks like when Manfred Huss went to BIS, the rights of his previous recordings on Koch went along with him.

Q

I have this disk of the 6 Scherzandi on Koch/Swann. Very enjoyable, and really, amazingly prescient of his future style (they were composed in 1761). This looks like a nice return of some good music to the catalog!