Weird, and sort of sad...

[Kullervo]

I have no qualms recommending (some of the safer) Xenakis or Stockhausen to people I know are into electronica or metal. A lot of younger people who are new to classical music find standard repertoire boring. Starting out, they want something that sounds more aggressive. Over time, they will work their way backwards and find value in earlier music.

I can vouch for this as it describes exactly how I got into classical music.

[Szykneij]

and you'd be right... Dylan is an overexposed pop icon, the level of his musicianship is quite low unfortunately. real composers/musicians aren't whores, they have to follow their own path & truth, they can't be concerned with the masses, otherwise they risk sounding completely contrived (fake, not true to themselves) in order to try to please everyone...you see, for serious musically disciplined artists they simply have to realize what they really want for better or for worse, this sometimes means breaking rules & traditions in the process...and we either "get it" or we don't if the end result is quite different. but as history has shown us it's usually these brave figures who stick to their own creative guns & vision that are remembered and cherished for their best work instead of the homogenized stuff.

Bob Dylan was not concerned with the masses. When he came onto the scene, his music completely defied all pop music conventions of the day. True to his convictions, he refused to perform on the Ed Sullivan Show rather than succumb to the demands of the censors. He risked the outrage of the folk music establishment by injecting electric instruments into his music. He was/is a brave figure who stuck to his own creative guns and vision.

[greg]

Bob Dylan was not concerned with the masses.

But the masses like him. That's usually not good...

[Szykneij]

But the masses like him. That's usually not good...

I have a feeling that many people here would be genuinely unhappy if the masses actually did enjoy classical music.

[Szykneij]

bob dylan blows

In the wind?   

[greg]

I have a feeling that many people here would be genuinely unhappy if the masses actually did enjoy classical music.

Well, there's basically no way to tell whether or not that would be a good thing...

but, to me, it would sound like a good thing- just imagine being able to discuss composers with people you know, rather than having to go online. Also, imagine there being no problem for lack of funding with orchestras. Also, imagine young people being into composing future masterworks, maybe even some coming to be as great as the greatest composers of past. It would at least sound like a good thing to me...

[karlhenning]

I have a feeling that many people here would be genuinely unhappy if the masses actually did enjoy classical music.

They would feel so . . . soiled 

[Frumaster]

But the masses like him. That's usually not good...

Thats an idiotic statement.  The masses at one time or another liked many of the classical composers we boast here on a regular basis.  Plus, a lot of people hate Bob Dylan, and he certainly hasn't been popular with the youth since his heyday.  Plus, there are many worse choices in music...at least Bob Dylan is a good poet and sings naturally.  The music is a bit stale...but thats folk music for you. 

[Kullervo]

Well, there's basically no way to tell whether or not that would be a good thing...

but, to me, it would sound like a good thing- just imagine being able to discuss composers with people you know, rather than having to go online. Also, imagine there being no problem for lack of funding with orchestras. Also, imagine young people being into composing future masterworks, maybe even some coming to be as great as the greatest composers of past. It would at least sound like a good thing to me...

It would just be dragged down into mediocrity, like everything else that appeals to the lowest common denominator.

[greg]

Thats an idiotic statement.  The masses at one time or another liked many of the classical composers we boast here on a regular basis.  Plus, a lot of people hate Bob Dylan, and he certainly hasn't been popular with the youth since his heyday.  Plus, there are many worse choices in music...at least Bob Dylan is a good poet and sings naturally.  The music is a bit stale...but thats folk music for you. 

Yes, the masses at one time more or less worshipped Beethoven and Wagner. That's perfectly fine, but I'm talking about the masses that worship stuff like Eminem, Garth Brooks, Marilyn Manson, Soulja Boy, Flo Rida, whatever, that's a pathetic attempt at making music. My point is just that the masses of today have bad taste in music, and the fact that Bob Dylan is as popular as he is (even if he isn't the most popular) just says that I might want to avoid listening to whatever I haven't heard of his music.

It would just be dragged down into mediocrity, like everything else that appeals to the lowest common denominator.

Probably. It'd be hard to tell, though, because to even set up such a scenario, society would have to be made up of completely different types of people than it is now.

[Sergeant Rock]

Yes, the masses at one time more or less worshipped Beethoven and Wagner. That's perfectly fine, but I'm talking about the masses that worship stuff like Eminem, Garth Brooks, Marilyn Manson, Soulja Boy, Flo Rida, whatever, that's a pathetic attempt at making music. My point is just that the masses of today have bad taste in music, and the fact that Bob Dylan is as popular as he is (even if he isn't the most popular) just says that I might want to avoid listening to whatever I haven't heard of his music.

Greg, you need to understand that, just as there are qualitative differences between classical composers (Dittersdorf or Salieri vs Haydn or Mozart, for example) so too are there differences between popular artists like Garth Brooks, Emimen, Britney and the Beatles, Dylan, Miles Davis. To ignore the greats in popular music is, in my opinion, extremely foolish and self-limiting. You cut yourself off from your own musical culture and heritage. Look at the members who contributed to the popular music desert island lists: do you really think people like Karl listen to crap?

I'm not suggesting you listen to what's on the radio today. That really is crap (quality radio in America has been destroyed by corporate takeovers and the appeal to commercial interests). But what's on the radio is only a tiny fraction compared to the "popular" music that's available from other sources--and by popular I mean anything that isn't classical: rock (and its many sub-genres), country, pop, jazz, R&B, folk--nearly a century's worth of popular music to choose from.

Sarge

[Dr. Dread]

This thread has become weird and sort of sad.

[karlhenning]

But, it could have gone Sad, and sort of weird . . . .

(* sniff *)

[Dr. Dread]

Next someone will complain that Tibetan monks really can't carry a tune...

[karlhenning]

But they dance purty.

[Dr. Dread]

But they dance purty.

[jhar26]

Yes, the masses at one time more or less worshipped Beethoven and Wagner. That's perfectly fine, but I'm talking about the masses that worship stuff like Eminem, Garth Brooks, Marilyn Manson, Soulja Boy, Flo Rida, whatever, that's a pathetic attempt at making music. My point is just that the masses of today have bad taste in music, and the fact that Bob Dylan is as popular as he is (even if he isn't the most popular) just says that I might want to avoid listening to whatever I haven't heard of his music.

Popular music isn't 'the enemy.' People who listen to Mariah Carey wouldn't be listening to Beethoven if there wasn't any pop music - they would be listening to nothing whatsoever.

I agree with others that it's a pity that classical music isn't more popular with the masses, but having said that I have no doubt whatsoever that if there ever is another composer who becomes as popular as, say, Mozart or Beethoven that those same people who complain now about the lack of interest in classical music would argue that said composer is overrated or has sold out. 'Specialists' like to make fun of the masses for their poor taste in music, but they don't want them to get with it either - not really, because those specialists also like the idea that they know something more than the average guy.

[Dr. Dread]

Popular music isn't 'the enemy.' People who listen to Mariah Carey wouldn't be listening to Beethoven if there wasn't any pop music - they would be listening to nothing whatsoever.

I agree with others that it's a pity that classical music isn't more popular with the masses, but having said that I have no doubt whatsoever that if there ever is another composer who becomes as popular as, say, Mozart or Beethoven that those same people who complain now about the lack of interest in classical music would argue that said composer is overrated or has sold out. 'Specialists' like to make fun of the masses for their poor taste in music, but they don't want them to get with it either - not really, because those specialists also like the idea that they know something more than the average guy.

Excellent.

[karlhenning]

Popular music isn't 'the enemy.' People who listen to Mariah Carey wouldn't be listening to Beethoven if there wasn't any pop music - they would be listening to nothing whatsoever.

I agree with others that it's a pity that classical music isn't more popular with the masses, but having said that I have no doubt whatsoever that if there ever is another composer who becomes as popular as, say, Mozart or Beethoven that those same people who complain now about the lack of interest in classical music would argue that said composer is overrated or has sold out. 'Specialists' like to make fun of the masses for their poor taste in music, but they don't want them to get with it either - not really, because those specialists also like the idea that they know something more than the average guy.

I agree with Dave, and if he's an average guy, I don't mind that he gets it.

I wonder if we can consider (say) Philip Glass as (roughly as) popular as Mozart or Beethoven.  (An office-mate was just asking me about Glass, as he had just seen a bio on the PBS series American Masters.)

[greg]

Greg, you need to understand that, just as there are qualitative differences between classical composers (Dittersdorf or Salieri vs Haydn or Mozart, for example) so too are there differences between popular artists like Garth Brooks, Emimen, Britney and the Beatles, Dylan, Miles Davis. To ignore the greats in popular music is, in my opinion, extremely foolish and self-limiting. You cut yourself off from your own musical culture and heritage. Look at the members who contributed to the popular music desert island lists: do you really think people like Karl listen to crap?

I'm not suggesting you listen to what's on the radio today. That really is crap (quality radio in America has been destroyed by corporate takeovers and the appeal to commercial interests). But what's on the radio is only a tiny fraction compared to the "popular" music that's available from other sources--and by popular I mean anything that isn't classical: rock (and its many sub-genres), country, pop, jazz, R&B, folk--nearly a century's worth of popular music to choose from.

Sarge

I was pretty much referring only to what's on the radio today, to be specific. 
Most of the radio sounds like broadcast mating calls. 

(there still is some "popular" music I listen to, but stuff that's unlikely to be heard on the radio).