Would Polytheism Be Better For Us ?

[DavidRoss]

It is multicultural now, sure, and that is why the west is dying. But the west too had strong ethnic feelings at one point. You only need to look at the history of America to see that the notion of a multicultural utopia is a recent construct. I surely don't see any wish from the Anglo-Saxon portion of America to form a multicultural state with the Indians, or the Blacks, or the Chinese, or even other European immigrants, like the Irish, or the Italians.

The most charitable explanation for that is willful blindness on your part.

[Josquin des Prez]

The most charitable explanation for that is willful blindness on your part.

Here's a brief history of the immigration laws of the United States:

http://ocp.hul.harvard.edu/immigration/dates.html

Can't you just feel the gushing feelings of multiculturalism emanating from this nation? Notice how immigration appears to concern groups of European descent most of the time. Do you know why? Because other ethnic groups simply weren't welcome. Far from being a land of opportunity for people of every race or creed, America was an ethnocentric nation with strong feelings for the preservation of their own European heritage. What do you think those Jim Crow laws were all about?

Indeed, America has always been predominantly white for most of its history. Today, it is only 60% white. Tomorrow, it will be predominantly non-white. Do you think this prediction to be erroneous, or are you going to argue that it doesn't matter?

[DavidRoss]

QED

[Josquin des Prez]

QED

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States

Population projection from the Census Bureau:

                              2008    2050
Non-Hispanic whites    68%    46%
Hispanic                    15%    25%
African Americans       12%    20%
Asian American            5%      9%

So we went from 90% white to 68% of today to a predicted 46% by 2050. What will the percentage of whites be by 2100? What about 2200? Too far away to care?

[greg]

You're extrapolating a God Who thinks, What Would Greg Do?  

Your illustration (which, I am sure it has not escaped you, is a bit simplistic on a number of points) imputes a questionable motivation to God:  that He created us because He needs our love.  But God is perfect; there is nothing He lacks (and the love among Persons in the Trinity is — without being quite the polytheism which might be better for Eric — an example of Love in the Godhead, without a "need" to create Man in order for God to receive love).  It is true (in Christian thought) that God made Man to love Him, but it is an error to consider this a 'lack' in God, the way no one to love us as people would be a lack.

Could write pages and pages more . . . but just one thought further.  In your rather 'projective' image of God creating, you fall into the error of considering Hell a spiteful punishment which God resentingly imposes.  The idea is more that:  God is Love;  in other words, it is God's nature to act and think and dwell in love.  God created Man in His image:  Man is meant, also, to love, to act and think and dwell in a condition of love.  Where God by His Nature is incapable of Non-Love, Man by his nature is created for the purpose of Love, and yet has free will.  The exercise of one's free will in defiance of Love, is for Man to be 'broken'.  From one angle, Hell is the absence of Love.  God doesn't "send" anyone to Hell;  Men choose to go there.

This is a good, insightful answer.

As for the first paragraph, I can't really say what I know because I'm not sure... I have heard things like "God is a jealous God" (jealous in a good way) of wanting your acceptance, etc. in church, though I wasn't sure about the "need" part.

So, a few questions more, if you don't mind:
-If God didn't actually "need" our love, why bother creating us? Diversion?
-The "Men choose to go there" part... now really, isn't that a really huge simplification?

Choosing a religion or belief is not simply a choice based on logic. It's a partially blind choice, mainly influenced by the people and culture around that person. It's like rolling a dice, and depending on that dice, it may have more sixes or fives than others- or, one may decide to write his own number or consciously put it down on a certain number that may be unlikely.

If the correct answer is a six, everyone else is screwed. I'm not sure that's fair to be punished for this type of scenario, is it?


I'd love nothing more than for this to make sense to me. 

[Xenophanes]

Andrei, Xenophanes, Catison, Guido

I enjoyed reading your thoughtful replies.... Thank you.

Like I said, I am no longer a believer, but there really is nothing like The Lord's Prayer.

I've always liked this one:

http://www.aztlan.net/lordsprayer.htm 

Well, we have gotten rather off the topic!  I know some philosophers have defended polytheism but I haven't managed to read any of them.  

I suppose one can feel closer to local gods who are available for particular purposes, rather than some universal distant god.  There are still many places sacred to some people. Those in village cultures may still have their family and local devotions.  But even those with a modern education go to them. A couple of people I know went on a tour of mostly Celtic sacred places in Ireland.  This seems nostalgia to me as it has little to do with their everyday lives.

And of course, in some branches of Christianity, there are sites devoted to saints, old mission sites, sites devoted to apparitions of Mary, and so on.  

Some of the East Indians seem to be henotheists, devoting themselves to the divine under the aspect of a particular mythological god such as Vishnu or Shiva, often manifested at a particular place.

From my point of view, lesser gods still require the One or Pure Act or Ground of Being, depending on the philosophical perspective.  

[Brian]

Indeed, America has always been predominantly white for most of its history. Today, it is only 60% white. Tomorrow, it will be predominantly non-white. Do you think this prediction to be erroneous, or are you going to argue that it doesn't matter?

What do you think of the prediction? I (and I am a white person) think it is a good thing.

[Josquin des Prez]

What do you think of the prediction? I (and I am a white person) think it is a good thing.

I think it's going to spell disaster for this nation. America was build by whites, it will go down as whites go down, to the detriment of everybody involved, and considering the level of animosity most ethnic groups are currently brooding against white Americans, i'm willing to bet we will not only become a minority, but a persecuted minority at that, and if current trends still hold then, we will eventually become extinct as a people.

Now i'm curious, what do you think it's going to happen when whites become a minority within their own lands? Multicultural harmony? Universal brotherly love? Rainbow colored unicorns dropping candy bars from the sky? Let's ear it.

[Bulldog]

Indeed, America has always been predominantly white for most of its history. Today, it is only 60% white. Tomorrow, it will be predominantly non-white. Do you think this prediction to be erroneous, or are you going to argue that it doesn't matter?

I think the prediction is on target, and America will surely change as a result.  Whether that's good or bad remains to be seen, but there's certainly a decent chance that the changes will be favorable.  

[Bulldog]

I think it's going to spell disaster for this nation. America was build by whites, it will go down as whites go down, to the detriment of everybody involved, and considering the level of animosity most ethnic groups are currently brooding against white Americans, i'm willing to bet we will not only become a minority, but a persecuted minority at that, and if current trends still hold then, we will eventually become extinct as a people.

Even Native Americans didn't become extinct.

[Bulldog]

I live in a predominantly orthodox Jewish neighborhood (around 90 percent) in northern New Jersey and I can tell you that they very much keep to themselves. I no longer even make the attempt to greet them occasionally (i.e. friendly hellos or waving) since they rarely make eye contact, even when it's not the sabbath.... They are not interested in any sort of normal fellowship as far as I can tell.

Why would you be living in an orthodox Jewish neighborhood?  I'm jewish and would never consider living in one.  God bless them, but orthodox jews are extremely rigid and want to live by themselves.  It's best that they do just that. 

[Josquin des Prez]

Whether that's good or bad remains to be seen, but there's certainly a decent chance that the changes will be favorable. 

What are you basing your odds on? Surely, i would say American culture has already waned considerably in this past several decades.

Even Native Americans didn't become extinct.

Only because we meant to keep them alive. Indeed, the fate of the American Indians is a mute testament of what happens when vastly different groups meet each other, and we never really had any particular animosity for them. Imagine what's going to happen to whites with all the hate that goes around.

God bless them, but orthodox jews are extremely rigid and want to live by themselves.  It's best that they do just that. 

Yeah, but when whites become extremely rigid and decide they want to live by themselves, it's called racism. 

[Bulldog]

I think it's going to spell disaster for this nation. America was build by whites, it will go down as whites go down,

That's very limited thinking on your part to feel that as whites go, so goes America.  There's even the possibility that as whites go down, America goes up.  All sorts of combinations are possible as America keeps evolving.

[Brian]

I think it's going to spell disaster for this nation. America was build by whites, it will go down as whites go down, to the detriment of everybody involved, and considering the level of animosity most ethnic groups are currently brooding against white Americans, i'm willing to bet we will not only become a minority, but a persecuted minority at that, and if current trends still hold then, we will eventually become extinct as a people.

Now i'm curious, what do you think it's going to happen when whites become a minority within their own lands? Multicultural harmony? Universal brotherly love? Rainbow colored unicorns dropping candy bars from the sky? Let's ear it.

I don't view whites as a people.
I also don't expect to view this thread still open when I wake up tomorrow. Believe it or not the forum policy has rules against posts like this.

[snyprrr]

funny, I was just going to say that this "lockable" thread seemed to be thriving in semi politeness, and while I was typing, the last 2 posts came up, and now the thread won't be here in the morning?

[Josquin des Prez]

That's very limited thinking on your part to feel that as whites go, so goes America.  There's even the possibility that as whites go down, America goes up.  All sorts of combinations are possible as America keeps evolving.

America is already going down. Nothing in America is evolving. The fate of Haiti is an example of what could actually happen, as narrated by Vernon Hesketh Prichard:

Go in whatever direction you like, the sites that meet you are the same. Ruined houses, ruined aqueducts, ruined fountains of stone, ruined walls, ruined forts...from the sea the town is but a little cluster of dwellings heaped together beneath the wooded mountains...her jetties are broken, black and old; the usual wreck lies ashore in her harbor and you will find there is one in every important harbor in the Republic... Once in the old French days the town was the center of luxury and fashion. It was called the "Little Paris" of the West. Since then ruin and devastation have swept over it

This was written in 1900. Look at Haiti today. Has anything changed? Look at Africa. Has anything changed? Which part of our current state of affairs makes you believe that it isn't going to happen to America? Is it our crumbling economy? Our sordid educational levels, which are decreasing exponentially? Our rotten consumerist culture? The fifty percent divorce rate and growing? Fifty years ago we were putting people on the moon. Today, we are wondering whether space exploration is even something that we need. Where is this progress our multicultural utopia is going to bestow upon us?

[Josquin des Prez]

I also don't expect to view this thread still open when I wake up tomorrow. Believe it or not the forum policy has rules against posts like this.

Was this country build by Anglo-Saxon settlers, or was it not? Was Rome build by the Romans? And if so, what happened to Rome when the Romans went down?

[karlhenning]

America is already going down.

Speak for yourself.

(Oh; you were.)

[Florestan]

I live in a predominantly orthodox Jewish neighborhood (around 90 percent) in northern New Jersey

Why don't you change your place?

[Florestan]

Don is not involved with any organization; he's a registered Independent.

Decryption: you pursue your own, individual conspiracy.