Would Polytheism Be Better For Us ?

[DavidRoss]

The point is that you have to prove whether a statement is factual or not. Calling somebody a racist is not proof, it's an ad hominem attack.

Why is this addressed to me?  Do you seek a logical analysis of these statements, neither of which is true?  

If a statement is factual, then it is factual, regardless of "proof."  It is customary to offer support for factual claims that may be in dispute.

Calling someone a "racist" is not necessarily an attack of any sort (though it can be and often is, for instance when used as an epithet intended to quash discussion).  It could be a simple statement of fact.  

[Florestan]

Yes.

Then whoever adheres to Judaism is a full member of the Jewish nation, regardless of his ethnic background (for instance, by converting to Judaism an Italian is no more Italian but Jew) --- is this correct?

[DavidRoss]

Then whoever adheres to Judaism is a full member of the Jewish nation, regardless of his ethnic background (for instance, by converting to Judaism an Italian is no more Italian but Jew) --- is this correct?

This reminds me of an old story about the fellow who converted to Catholicism, a ceremony completed when the priest made the sign of the cross before him while proclaiming, "You were born a Jew, you were raised a Jew, but you are now a Catholic."

Some time later, the priest happened upon the new convert while he was eating a hamburger on Friday.  The priest chastized the man for eating beef on Friday instead of fish (an old story, remember?).  "No problem, Father," the man said.  He then waved his hand over the hamburger and said, "You were born a cow, you were raised a cow, but you are now a fish!"

[Florestan]

This reminds me of an old story about the fellow who converted to Catholicism, a ceremony completed when the priest made the sign of the cross before him while proclaiming, "You were born a Jew, you were raised a Jew, but you are now a Catholic."

Some time later, the priest happened upon the new convert while he was eating a hamburger on Friday.  The priest chastized the man for eating beef on Friday instead of fish (an old story, remember?).  "No problem, Father," the man said.  He then waved his hand over the hamburger and said, "You were born a cow, you were raised a cow, but you are now a fish!"

[Bulldog]

Then whoever adheres to Judaism is a full member of the Jewish nation, regardless of his ethnic background (for instance, by converting to Judaism an Italian is no more Italian but Jew) --- is this correct?

No.  A non-jewish citizen of Italy who converts to Judaism is an Italian Jew (just like I'm an American Jew).  Through conversion, only the religious identity changes.

[Florestan]

No.  A non-jewish citizen of Italy who converts to Judaism is an Italian Jew (just like I'm an American Jew). 

Are you then a convert Jew or a Jew by birth?

Through conversion, only the religious identity changes.

That's my position too.

[Homo Aestheticus]

Eric is no racist at all

Thanks Andrei.

[Homo Aestheticus]

Ah, I forgot about that although I wanted to reply the moment I read it. The claim that the Jews are the only ones that practice infant circumcision, apart from a number of African tribes, is false. The Muslims practice it too, as well as the Coptic and Ethiopian Orthodox Christians.

But it doesn't change the fact that it shouldn't be done.

[Homo Aestheticus]

Somewhere earlier in the thread he wants to dismiss the Jews collectively as stupid because of the tradition of circumcision.

And I stand by that.

Look at nature, even some animals have foreskins. That is the way the gods designed us. And it has protecive functions as well.

Removing that from an infant is just morally wrong.

[Homo Aestheticus]

Nor will Eric be able to rest until that percentage is dropped into single digits!

(So to speak.)

That's correct.

I do not believe that  anyone  has the right to cut a part of somebody's body without their consent.

[Bulldog]

Are you then a convert Jew or a Jew by birth?

By birth.  

[Florestan]

Thanks Andrei.

You're welcome, but try not to think in collectivistic terms anymore.

[Homo Aestheticus]

Well, pigs was indeed a casual lapse into ad hominem; but:

. . . is certainly gratuitously racist, and reflects very poorly on a neighbor whose reputation is none too high, to begin with.

FYI, I work with Jews and one of my sisters also married one (Reform)

But I do believe that Jews, on the whole, carry with them a quiet, holier-than-thou mindset... And the 'proud attitude' shows more often than any other group I've seen.

This is not racist, I am merely sharing my observations.

[karlhenning]

Thanks Andrei.

Can the leopard change his spots, or Eric learn to read more than selectively?

Somewhere earlier in the thread he wants to dismiss the Jews collectively as stupid because of the tradition of circumcision.

Ah, I forgot about that although I wanted to reply the moment I read it. The claim that the Jews are the only ones that practice infant circumcision, apart from a number of African tribes, is false. The Muslims practice it too, as well as the Coptic and Ethiopian Orthodox Christians.

[Florestan]

By birth.  

Then the comparison you just made with the Italian by birth which by conversion becomes an Italian Jew, just like you are an American Jew, yet being so by birth it's a bit confusing.

If it looks like I'm splitting hairs, I think I actually am, so never mind.

[Bulldog]

But it doesn't change the fact that it shouldn't be done.

Not a fact at all.  What's this obsession you have about circumcision?  Why would you even care?

As a person who was circumcised as an infant, let me throw out some straight facts:

1.  I have no memory of the event.
2.  It has had no unfavorable impact on my life or health.
3.  I look great!

[karlhenning]

I work with Jews and one of my sisters also married one (Reform)

Doesn't change the offensive nature of your discussion, Eric.  How frequently to you tell the Jews with who you work or to whom you are related by marriage that they are UTTERLY RETARDED, hmm?

[DavidRoss]

Not a fact at all.  What's this obsession you have about circumcision?  Why would you even care?

As a person who was circumcised as an infant, let me throw out some straight facts:

1.  I have no memory of the event.
2.  It has had no unfavorable impact on my life or health.
3.  I look great!

We'll take your word for it.  No pics, please.

[karlhenning]

Not a fact at all.

Correct.  Chap simply does not know what a fact is.  Incapable of learning?  Just wilfully dense?  You make the call.

What's this obsession you have about circumcision?  Why would you even care?

As a person who was circumcised as an infant, let me throw out some straight facts:

1.  I have no memory of the event.
2.  It has had no unfavorable impact on my life or health.
3.  I look great!

Don't confuse Eric with the facts; his mind is made up.

[karlhenning]

We'll take your word for it.  No pics, please.

Esti thinks Don looks great!