Arvo Pärt's asylum.

[lukeottevanger]

The prolation canon of Cantus in Memory of Benjamin Britten - I fall asleep to it every night!

Now, is that a good thing or not?

[Guido]

The two pieces that got me interested in Part were Tabula Rasa and Fratres for 12 cellos (and the violin/piano version - the two most effective incarnations IMHO). The 12 cello version of Fratres especially is astonishing in terms of what Luke describes - the harmony and melody are in fact on and the same - the same chord sequence descending moaly by thirds from the highest to the lowest range of the cello. What is most surprising is the astonishing harmonies consist only of a single stream of 3 note chords above a held drone of a fifth on G and D. Tabula Rasa is much more cnventional in a sense, and initially one gets the feeling that it might be some kind of homage to a vivaldi concerto. But it really is an astonishing work. I think you're right Luke that people are thrown off by the tonal beauty of the sound, but they don't realise quite how structured and carefully thought out the tintinabuli technique is - its just as rules based as Serialism in some senses.

I also love Spiegel in Spiegel, which may be his most significant piece.

Anyway - pre minimal part is interesting if not as important. I'm also very fond of the tiny cello concerto (c.8 or 9 minutes). Its in his collage style, which essentially mixes atonality, aleatoric techniques and Bachian polyphony in starkly juxtaposing ways.

I'm quite keen on the pre-minimal Symphonies too, especially the third which could be seen as a bridge between the older style and the minimal style. Its completely diatonic, and uses very small repeating fragments to create neo-classical (often quasi-Bachian) structures. Difficult to describe (Actually it's quite a lot like Barber's first Symphony + Bach + minimalism.)

This CD is still the best Part CD after all these years. All the performances are perfect, somehow everything is just played exactly as it was meant to be played.



http://www.amazon.com/Tabula-Rasa-Arvo-Part/dp/B0000262K7/ref=sr_1_8/002-0464639-0016022?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1180900131&sr=8-8

[Guido]

Do you have any particular recommendation with regards to Es sang vor langen Jahren and the Stabat mater? This one has both - any good?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/P%C3%A4rt-Choral-Works-Arvo/dp/B0001XAQ5K/ref=sr_1_2/202-8355540-6495045?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1180901248&sr=8-2

[not edward]

Do you have any particular recommendation with regards to Es sang vor langen Jahren and the Stabat mater? This one has both - any good?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/P%C3%A4rt-Choral-Works-Arvo/dp/B0001XAQ5K/ref=sr_1_2/202-8355540-6495045?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1180901248&sr=8-2

Just get the Arbos disc on ECM. Great performances of both by the people they were written for.

[lukeottevanger]

Just get the Arbos disc on ECM. Great performances of both by the people they were written for.

If only it was that simple - I have the original Arbos LP, and I'd love to upgrade it to CD. But it's always been impossible to get hold of when I've looked in the past. I haven't heard the disc Guido links to, but there's another one - on Black Box I think (I ought to know as I have it, but I can't remember right now!) - which has both pieces and a couple of other interesting things. It's good, it will do fine - but the ECM is better; the ECM recordings are always better than the competition in Part, I think.

[Drasko]

If only it was that simple - I have the original Arbos LP, and I'd love to upgrade it to CD. But it's always been impossible to get hold of when I've looked in the past.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Arbos-Arvo-Part/dp/B0000260TR

[lukeottevanger]

Thank you! So simple in the end - but it's always been around £50 on the marketplace when I've looked before.

[not edward]

Thank you! So simple in the end - but it's always been around £50 on the marketplace when I've looked before.

There's two different ASINs for most of the earlier Part ECM discs: one lists as in print and the other as OOP at inflated marketplace prices.

You just have to make sure you get the right one in the search: sometimes they're poorly indexed.

[lukeottevanger]

Ah, I see. It's been troubling me for a long time that I hadn't completed my LP-to-CD Part-on-ECM update, but as I do have the original knocking around, I'd never really looked into it too far.

That number has particularly good liner notes, IIRC. ECM just got everything right on those issues, and as Guido says, that first one, Tabula Rasa etc., is still probably the single finest Part disc of all. But the Hilliards and Part were made for each other, and so I treasure the other discs too, Arbos, Passio and Miserere. Things start to lose that startling focus a little with the Te Deum disc (no Hilliards either), but then, as we've said before, it is the music that is the problem there.

[Scriptavolant]

Arvo Pärt: Pro et Contra, Symphonies 1 and 2 (Paavo Järvi, Truls Mørk, Kalev Kuljus, Arvo Leibur, Estonian National Symphony Orchestra)



--Bruce

Right today I've purchased the above. Since my stereo is broken, I've downloaded the CD on Itunes. I'm looking forward to deepen my short knowledge of Pärt.

[beclemund]

I have the ATMA Classique recording with the Stabat and Es sang vor lagen Jahren from Guido's link. It is quite good on its own. I do not have the ECM release to compare it against, but I would still recommend it. Daniel Taylor sings wonderfully; I'm sure it would make for a nice compliment to Susan Bickley's performance on ECM.

[Guido]

That Arbos CD arrived today. What a beautiful piece Es sang vor langen Jahren is. Thats the only thing I've listened to so far.

Also I just discovered the piano variations - one wishes it could have been just a little longer - rising and fading before you've noticed the 200 seconds is up.

[Guido]

Listening more to the CD. Two pieces stand out above the other for me: Es sang vor langen Jahren and the Stabat Mater. The other piece I don't think I would put up there with his finest instrumental works (Fratres, Spiegel in Spiegel, Tabula Rasa, Cantus, fur Alina and the piano variations as already mentioned.) But yeah - such astonishingly beautiful stuff - Its all so sad - not what one traditionally associates with religious elements in music - usually celebratory or awe inspiring but these pieces seem to be born of state of deep sorrow and an acute awareness of the transience of human experience.

[lukeottevanger]

Listening more to the CD. Two pieces stand out above the other for me: Es sang vor langen Jahren and the Stabat Mater. The other piece i don;t think I would put up there with his finest instrumental works (Fratres, Spiegel in Spiegel, Tabula Rasa, Cantus, fur Alina and the piano variations as already mentioned.) But yeah - such astonishingly beautiful stuff - Its all so sad - not what one traditionally associates with religious elements in music - usually celebratory or awe inspiring but these pieces seem to be born of date of deep sorrow and the transience of human experience.

That consensus is growing. You've picked out the two standouts, I think. Tabula Rasa, Cantus, Spiegel in Spiegel and Fratres are every bit as fine - but there is something very special about those two (the use of string trio/duo helps, imo)

[Lethevich]

Also I just discovered the piano variations - one wishes it could have been just a little longer - rising and fading before you've noticed the 200 seconds is up.

Those have long since been theoretical favourites of mine - theoretical because I am unsure how I am supposed to listen to something so short, no matter how attractive I find them. On a CD they will be completely overshadowed by everything else, a sort of blink-it-and-miss-it thing, but repeating them a few times would also be pointless, no matter how appealing it is to try... (If he wanted them to be that long, he'd have written them longer.) It doesn't help that he hasn't written very much in a similar format, so the CD I own with them on features quite different piano music by other composers to fill it out. These variations are IMO possibly the most ripped-off of Pärt's output. You can hear mockeries of them being used to sell Audis, Mercedes, all sorts of "high end" products in TV commercials.

The other piece I don't think I would put up there with his finest instrumental works

(Assuming this is the Arbos disc still) Is the piece you mention Pari Intervallo? Pärt's post-'genius period' instrumental works fare a lot worse than his choral works (of which a lot remain attractive). They tend to sound like sonic wallpaper (some Kancheli pieces have a similar effect) - like melodically uninspired "broody" film music. They put forth very little to justify their existence IMO

A side note, I don't have a clue what to make of the (2x) Arbos tracks on that ECM disc. I tend to skip them rather than have to adjust the volume so I am not deafened by them, or miss almost all the detail in the quieter tracks due to the relatively low volume required for them (we can't all have soundproof music rooms ).

[lukeottevanger]

(Assuming this is the Arbos disc still) Is the piece you mention Pari Intervallo? Pärt's post-'genius period' instrumental works fare a lot worse than his choral works (of which a lot remain attractive). They tend to sound like sonic wallpaper (some Kancheli pieces have a similar effect) - like melodically uninspired "broody" film music. They put forth very little to justify their existence IMO

ooh, no, if Guido did mean Pari Intervallo, I have to slightly disagree that it is of lesser quality. It's a small work, but it comes from Part's best vein, most similar of all to Spiegel in Speigel, I think - a calm, totally process-driven instrumental work.

[Lethevich]

ooh, no, if Guido did mean Pari Intervallo, I have to slightly disagree that it is of lesser quality. It's a small work, but it comes from Part's best vein, most similar of all to Spiegel in Speigel, I think - a calm, totally process-driven instrumental work.

Looks like I gotta give that one a fair relisten

[Guido]

Variationen zur Gesundung von Arinuschka is the one I meant. Not on the Arbos CD - I should have been clearer. Its about 3 and half minutes.

Pari Intervalo is for organ is it not? Its actually very very similar to the piano Variations.

[Guido]

Pari Intervalo is another good work I think, though I generally have an aversion to organ music.

On a completely unrelated note: I have wondered about arranging Tavener's Protecting Veil for cello and organ, as a piano reduction just wouldn't work with those long held notes (nor has one been prepared)

[lukeottevanger]

Variationen zur Gesundung von Arinuschka is the one I meant. Not on the Arbos CD - I should have been clearer. Its about 3 and half minutes.

Pari Intervalo is for organ is it not? Its actually very very similar to the piano Variations.

Yes, it is for organ. The process it not the same as the variations - which are quite sophisticated rhythmically (lots of broken barlines) but also very pure tintinabulation. For some reason, though they are the 'real thing' those variations are among my least favourite Part. I think the imposition of the variation principle is fairly forced, and the shape of each variation is too quickly over - a simple up-down - for it to register as anything other than a surface gesture. Part works better when the shape takes longer to evolve, IMO - as in Pari Intervallo or Speigel in Spiegel, for instance.

Guido, I can see TPV transferring very well to organ - I can hear those cluster bell chords sounding as good as or better than the original, and some weird intimate voicing for the mirror-harmony 'viol' sections too...yes, it would work beautifully...