Walking with Elgar

[The new erato]

Since my background is not similar to most members of this forum, I wasn't aware how narrow-minded and brainwashed  music scholars can be. They prefer living in historical lies and fear free-thinkers calling them ridiculous blatherers. The only allowed way to like Elgar is to like his cello concerto only and if yo enjoy his other works you are simply a ridiculous blatherer. I am very sorry for not being brainwashed in music schools.

So. Your posts recently have been very fine, please don't spoil your increasing reputation by regressing. Now please don't make an positive issue out of having no formal training and calling it free-thinking. What would YOU think if I called you a brainwashed acoustic engineer having no idea of how acoustice really work by issue of having been brainwashed through education?

[DavidRoss]

Since my background is not similar to most members of this forum, I wasn't aware how narrow-minded and brainwashed  music scholars can be. They prefer living in historical lies and fear free-thinkers calling them ridiculous blatherers. The only allowed way to like Elgar is to like his cello concerto only and if yo enjoy his other works you are simply a ridiculous blatherer. I am very sorry for not being brainwashed in music schools.

Awww...did somebody forget to take his meds?

[71 dB]

So. Your posts recently have been very fine,

Thank you!

please don't spoil your increasing reputation by degressing.

I don't want to degress. I just don't like to be called a ridiculous blatherer when I have behaved better as you said.

Now please don't make an positive issue out of having no formal training and calling it free-thinking. What would YOU think if I called you a brainwashed acoustic engineer having no idea of how acoustice really work by issue of having been brainwashed through education?

But I am a brainwashed acoustics engineer! That's what education is about, it seems...

[71 dB]

Think I'll spin that treasured Tortelier disc next--it's been awhile since I last heard this piece, one of the glories of the literature and by far the finest work by Elgar that I know.

How many Elgar works do you know? If you like the cello concerto you could try Elgar's Violin Sonata, String Quartet and Piano Quintet which he composed around the same time.

[Elgarian]

The only allowed way to like Elgar is to like his cello concerto only and if yo enjoy his other works you are simply a ridiculous blatherer.

Let's test your theory.

I confess to having been profoundly moved by the following Elgar works on innumerable occasions for over 40 years:

The two symphonies
The cello concerto
The violin concerto
The introduction & allegro for strings
The Enigma Variations
The violin sonata
The string quartet
The piano quintet.

Appreciation of these following is more recent:

The Dream of Gerontius
Caractacus
The Spirit of England
The Elgar/Payne third symphony (inevitably more recent)

Then there's a heap of other stuff that I enjoy or find interesting just because it's Elgar and he interests me intensely.

I know there's been some sort of trouble about Elgar in the past, but I don't believe that anyone is going to call me a ridiculous blatherer because I love his music.

[The new erato]

but I don't believe that anyone is going to call me a ridiculous blatherer because I love his music.

To do that you need to blather. Love is quite another matter. A fine thread you started BTW.

[Elgarian]

To do that you need to blather.

Oh I can blather with the best of them. I can be ridiculous too. But I don't think either activity is associated particularly with Elgar. I can jump onto a table and do a good impression of a teapot though.

[knight66]

I am with you in your entire list except I swap Caractacus for The Sea Pictures and add The Coronation Ode.


Mike

[Elgarian]

I am with you in your entire list except I swap Caractacus for The Sea Pictures and add The Coronation Ode.

Damnation! How the heck could I have forgotten the Sea Pictures!!?? Forgive me, Janet Baker, and pardon me while I shoot myself.

[71 dB]

To do that you need to blather. Love is quite another matter.

You miss the point: I blather because I love. Why else would I?

[DavidRoss]

How many Elgar works do you know? If you like the cello concerto you could try Elgar's Violin Sonata, String Quartet and Piano Quintet which he composed around the same time.

Okay, I'll play along.  Let's see...a couple of concertos, a couple of symphonies, a string quartet, a couple of oratorios, a song cycle, several miscellaneous works for strings, The Enigma Variations (of course!), about a dozen woodwind quintets, and--oh, yes!--a couple of marches!  Let's say a couple of dozen.  Okay...thanks for sharing!

You miss the point: I blather because I love. Why else would I?

Knowing that English is a second language for you, I wonder if you know what a "straight man" is? 

I don't believe that anyone is going to call me a ridiculous blatherer because I love his music.

Not a chance.  It's never happened here before and I doubt it will ever happen in the future.

I presume some of the other works include his WW5tets?  Lovely little pieces, charmingly unpretentious, don't you think?

[karlhenning]

I was in the choir singing the Opus 18 No. 1 at First Church Boston this morning.

[Elgarian]

I presume some of the other works include his WW5tets?  Lovely little pieces, charmingly unpretentious, don't you think?

I agree they're pretty things, and interesting because they come from such an early period of his composing career, though the sound (as opposed to the music) of a 'total woodwind' assembly seems to make my fillings feel as if they're dropping out after a while. So ... very small doses, infrequently applied, is the order of the day. At the other end of the career arc - from the period where he's supposed to have been all washed up - there's the Arthur suite which is nice to lay back with and dream about Tintagel or somewhere. It's far from being a major work, but pleasant enough for a soppy old Romantic like me; and bits of it found their way very effectively into the remarkable unfinished third symphony.

[71 dB]

Okay, I'll play along.  Let's see...a couple of concertos, a couple of symphonies, a string quartet, a couple of oratorios, a song cycle, several miscellaneous works for strings, The Enigma Variations (of course!), about a dozen woodwind quintets, and--oh, yes!--a couple of marches!  Let's say a couple of dozen.  Okay...thanks for sharing!

So you don't know the Violin Sonata or Piano Quintet? You don't know Elgar's many part songs? You don't know his Organ Sonata? In the South overture? The Music Makers? Romance for bassoon and orchestra? Concert Allegro and other solo piano works? Une Voix dans le Désert? Severn Suite? Te Deum & Benedictus? The Banner of St George? The Spirit of England? Etudes Characteristiques for solo violin?

Elgar was an extremely versatile composer. Knowing his works widely makes it easier to appreciate and understand his craftmanship and genius that is not limited to the cello concerto.

[The new erato]

I've listened to the 30CD complete Collectors Edition and found substantial parts of it heavy going. But that would be true of many composers of a rank just below the very greatest like Bach, Beethoven and Brahms.

[karlhenning]

So you don't know the Violin Sonata or Piano Quintet? You don't know Elgar's many part songs? You don't know his Organ Sonata? In the South overture? The Music Makers? Romance for bassoon and orchestra? Concert Allegro and other solo piano works? Une Voix dans le Désert? Severn Suite? Te Deum & Benedictus? The Banner of St George? The Spirit of England? Etudes Characteristiques for solo violin?

Ah, the if you don't know every nook and cranny of the catalogue, you don't really appreciate Elgar gambit!

Elgar was an extremely versatile composer.

Your obsession with Elgar is revealed here, my friend.  Strike the adverb extremely, thank you.  Versatility is quite a commonplace among composers;  you would know this, if you spent a little less time bound inside The Elgar Bubble.

Knowing his works widely makes it easier to appreciate and understand his craftmanship and genius that is not limited to the cello concerto.

I don't know if there's anything so melancholy to reflect upon, as an "Elgar snob."  The Opus 18 No. 1 part-song (on a modest text by the composer's wife) "O Happy Eyes," the In the South overture, The Music Makers and the Romance for bassoon and orchestra, are all lovely pieces.  But they're not of the musical stature of the Cello Concerto; nor is familiarity with them a necessity for appreciating the greatness of the Cello Concerto.

I've listened to the 30CD complete Collectors Edition and found substantial parts of it heavy going. But that would be true of many composers of a rank just below the very greatest like Bach, Beethoven and Brahms.

In fairness, making your way through the complete works of even Bach, Beethoven and Brahms would make for heavy going, whether they are "the very greatest" or not.

[Dr. Dread]

I've listened to the 30CD complete Collectors Edition...

Congratulations, sir.

[Elgarian]

So you don't know the Violin Sonata or Piano Quintet? You don't know Elgar's many part songs? You don't know his Organ Sonata? In the South overture? The Music Makers? Romance for bassoon and orchestra? Concert Allegro and other solo piano works? Une Voix dans le Désert? Severn Suite? Te Deum & Benedictus? The Banner of St George? The Spirit of England? Etudes Characteristiques for solo violin?

Steady on old chap, I didn't realise we were in a competition, here. I'd just like to say, for the record, and although I've loved Elgar and his music all my life with a great passion, that I haven't heard the organ sonata, the romance for bassoon and orchestra, the Te Deum and Benedictus, or the Etudes Characteristiques, myself. That's not to say that I won't one day listen to them; but having a few works unticked on my list doesn't somehow exclude me from the circle of true Elgar lovers, y'know. Anyone who's familiar with the works DavidRoss has listed has more than a passing acquaintance with Elgar's music, in my opinion. And certainly he has enough to decide whether he enjoys them sufficiently to want any more.

[71 dB]

Ah, the if you don't know every nook and cranny of the catalogue, you don't really appreciate Elgar gambit!

I did appreciate Elgar ever since I heard the first work by him but exploring more made me appreciate more. You appreciate Elgar your own way of course. Just know that there's Elgar to explore beyond the 2 dozen works you say you know.

Your obsession with Elgar is revealed here, my friend.  Strike the adverb extremely, thank you.  Versatility is quite a commonplace among composers;  you would know this, if you spent a little less time bound inside The Elgar Bubble.

I don't listen to Elgar all the time. In fact only a small percentage of my listening is Elgar. Today I have listened to Rameau, Handel, Haydn and Puccini.

[The new erato]

In fairness, making your way through the complete works of even Bach, Beethoven and Brahms would make for heavy going, whether they are "the very greatest" or not.

I don't know if I agree, as I know at a guess about 90% of each of those composers works, and what paerticularly impresses me with them are their uniform high quality.