Zander

[cliftwood]

Last night I spent a delightful few hours listening to Ben Zander's presentation of the Bruckner Symphony # 5 in B Flat.

This double CD has the added attraction of Zander's commentary and analysis of the work, a splendid insight into what Bruckner had in his mind when composing this superb work.

I wish other conductors would be competent and motivated enough to do this kind of thing when they make recordings. It adds so much to the understanding and pleasure when hearing the music, after the lecture by Zander.

He's a special guy.

[Brian]

One other - great - conductor who does this type of thing is, of course, Leonard Bernstein. Check out his Berlioz Symphonie fantastique, which comes with a lecture, "Berlioz Takes a Trip." I think John Eliot Gardiner's Beethoven cycle also came with an interview about the symphonies.

[DavidW]

I'm surprised to see Zander of all conductors raised as a standard for competence and motivation.   I find his lectures to be usually pretentious and superficial and his performances lacking.

He's a special guy.

Indeed!

[Brian]

I find his lectures to be usually pretentious and superficial and his performances lacking.

I think his lectures might be at their best when removed from scholasticism. Take this lecture, my first exposure to Zander and something that's made me an unquestioning fan:

http://www.youtube.com/v/r9LCwI5iErE

[DavidW]

Yeah that is a good one Brian, I seem to remember you or someone posting it awhile back.  I like stuff like that.  But the lectures on his Mahler recordings are just awful!

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Now playing:  Hob. III:49 String Quartet Op. 50 No. 6 mvt. 2   

[cliftwood]

I'm surprised to see Zander of all conductors raised as a standard for competence and motivation.   I find his lectures to be usually pretentious and superficial and his performances lacking.

Indeed!

David..

Can you tell me any other present conductor who is following this format, with a presentation that is less pretentious and superficial? Do you think this idea is a bad one or is it just Zander you don't like?

By the way, while I didn't hold his performances at the highest level, I find his Mahler recordings excellent.

[DavidW]

I like the idea, just not what Zander did with it.  One way to get your fill of cool lectures are actual performances.  It's pretty common for the conductor to give a pre-performance lecture on the music, and that's always interesting.

[DavidW]

Well I gave it more thought, and when I think about how rarely is a lecture included in a cd or cd set, I guess one should simply appreciate it when it happens, and I shouldn't be so overly critical. 0:)

[techniquest]

Maybe Zander's Mahler lectures are aimed at a more general music-appreciation audience. I find his lectures add an interesting dimension to the performances for the lay-person, rather than illuminate an already brilliant scholarly elite.

[PerfectWagnerite]

David..

Can you tell me any other present conductor who is following this format, with a presentation that is less pretentious and superficial?

There is Harnoncourt's recording of Bruckner's 9th with the Vienna Philharmonic where he gives an excellent, scholarly account of the reconstruction of the finale fragments. It is much more informative in about 1/10 as many words as Zander.

[The new erato]

Don't Robert Simson give a step-by-step analysis of his 9th symphony on the Hyperion disc? I have it but am busy listening to other stuff....

[jlaurson]

I'm surprised to see Zander of all conductors raised as a standard for competence and motivation.   I find his lectures to be usually pretentious and superficial and his performances lacking.

One other - great - conductor who does this type of thing is, of course, Leonard Bernstein. Check out his Berlioz Symphonie fantastique, which comes with a lecture, "Berlioz Takes a Trip." I think John Eliot Gardiner's Beethoven cycle also came with an interview about the symphonies.

Yeah that is a good one Brian, I seem to remember you or someone posting it awhile back.  I like stuff like that.  But the lectures on his Mahler recordings are just awful!

There is Harnoncourt's recording of Bruckner's 9th with the Vienna Philharmonic where he gives an excellent, scholarly account of the reconstruction of the finale fragments. It is much more informative in about 1/10 as many words as Zander.

1.) The problem with Zander's lectures coming across as pretentious might have as much to do with the recipient (or more), than Zander. When we think ourselves as 'knowing it already', then the Zander effect fizzles. But Zander doesn't try to reach us as much as he tries to reach a far greater swath of those interested but perhaps still intimidated (probably by the likes of us  ) by classical music.

4.) That's important to remember esp. when comparing to Harnoncourt's comments (in badly translated English) which are, truth be told, not all that much better. (Though I would agree that he's a much more interesting and generally speaking superior conductor.)

The TED talk, btw., was for an audience that has nothing to do with classical music per se; not even pre-selected. The same people would have gone had Bjorn Lomborg given the talk on Climate Change & healthy scepticism.

2.) Lennie was perhaps a better communicator than anything else--composer, pianist, conductor. His early American Decca recordings with the musical analyses of a Dvorak, Schumann, Beethoven, Brahms, and Tchaikovsky Symphony each (9, 2, 3, 4, 6) is a great example. To think that back then we thought that appropriate for children. Today we might find it over the heads of most adults.

I don't remember a Gardiner talk on the Symphony set... but I haven't got it here to check.

3.) Zander's Mahler-lectures aren't all hits. In fact, I find only one truly good... but that one I find absolutely superb. It's his lecture that goes with the 6th Symphony. It's nearly better than the performance, and the performance, too, is excellent. (In fact, if you don't mind the score being pulled around, it's one of the best.)

[greg]

The only Zander I have is the Mahler 3, which I listened to for a few years before anything else. I still think his performance is one of the better ones. As for the lecture, I loved it at the time and really appreciated that he would be thoughtful and passionate enough to do something like that, though I haven't listened to it in several years, so I don't know how I would respond today.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Don't Robert Simson give a step-by-step analysis of his 9th symphony on the Hyperion disc? I have it but am busy listening to other stuff....

I am not sure whether it was Simpson himself or somebody else, but on the disc of the 9th there is a 25 minute talk at the end about the piece. The talk is awful, as awful as the work itself, well almost. All I remember is that everything is a "wedge".

The only Zander I have is the Mahler 3, which I listened to for a few years before anything else. I still think his performance is one of the better ones. As for the lecture, I loved it at the time and really appreciated that he would be thoughtful and passionate enough to do something like that, though I haven't listened to it in several years, so I don't know how I would respond today.

It is not one of the better ones, because good performances of Mahler's 3rd are about as abundant as gas stations in Bergen County NJ. In fact the only really "good" as in acceptable recordings of Zander's Mahler is the 9th, where the lecture that comes with it is actually pretty informative and really gets to the innards of the score that his other lectures lack. In fact the 9th was about the first Mahler recordings he made (I could be wrong here).

[Brian]

2.) Lennie was perhaps a better communicator than anything else--composer, pianist, conductor. His early American Decca recordings with the musical analyses of a Dvorak, Schumann, Beethoven, Brahms, and Tchaikovsky Symphony each (9, 2, 3, 4, 6) is a great example. To think that back then we thought that appropriate for children. Today we might find it over the heads of most adults.

I don't remember a Gardiner talk on the Symphony set... but I haven't got it here to check.

I just listened to Lennie's Lecture on the Symphonie fantastique - it was good but Lennie sounded much geekier than I expected.    The Gardiner set does have interviews in English and I believe also in French and German - sampled the English one yesterday once I discovered it was really there.

[DavidW]

Lennie sounded much geekier than I expected. 

Yeah he's no hip cat like Boulez.

[Brian]

Or even Gulda.

[DavidW]

Haha that's great Brian!

[Brian]

Yeah! Maybe we should have a hipster classical thread? Here's a video of Gulda in full Hep Cat Mode, opening Doors:

http://www.youtube.com/v/jhidkzL6TWU

(He's even got bling - that crazy watch!)

[DavidW]

That was fantastic.  You're like "no that was Liszt, Gulda is a little interventionist in his approach..."