Bel Canto

[Mozart]

Why is bel canto so popular when its so terrible?

[knight66]

What bel canto have you been listening to?

Mike

[Tsaraslondon]

And I wonder what you actually mean by bel canto.

If you're talking about Italian opera of the early nineteenth century (Rossini, Bellini, Donizetti etc), then it's nowhere near as popular as it once was, when Callas was infusing new life into it, and when Sutherland, Caballe, Gencer, Sills and others were reviving forgotten operas from that period. Notwithstanding the work of Opera Rara, I'd say it was definitely in decline.

On the other hand, bel canto can be used as a term to describe the technique necessary to sing the operas of Handel and the Baroque, which are definitely enjoying something of a revival. 

According to Wikipedia

The earliest usage of the term bel canto emerged in late 17th-century Italy to refer to the Italian model of singing that was developing there. However, the phrase did not become widely used until the mid 18th century and the term did not take on a more specified meaning until the mid-19th century. In fact "neither musical nor general dictionaries saw fit to attempt definition until after 1900." Even so, the term bel canto remains ambiguous and is often used nostalgically in its application to a lost singing tradition.

[knight66]

Yes, that was why I asked what he was listening to, in the hope it might be Andrea Bocelli singing 'Memories' or some such.

Mike

[71 dB]

Why is bel canto so popular when its so terrible?

Popular things are often terrible and you are calling something popular bel canto. There is a Norwegian band named Bel Canto. I like their music very much.

[knight66]

No, he is saying that bel canto is popular. But we don't know what he means by bel canto.

Mike

[Sarastro]

Why is bel canto so popular when its so terrible?

Maybe because to other people's tastes it is not as terrible?

[Guido]

The only opera that I know that is bel canto (as described by the composer) is Goldschmidt's Beatrice Cenci (1950) which is certainly not terrible (in fact I love it)

http://www.boosey.com/pages/cr/catalogue/cat_detail.asp?musicid=2858

[Mozart]

Hmm well I meant the composers mentioned by Tsarlon, Rossini, Bellini ext...

and when I said popular, I meant popular amongst opera fans.

If I am not mistaken, Lucia Di Lammermoor is the most performed bel canto opera, and it doesn't have a even a minute of good music, and doesn't deserve its popularity.

Since its revival, Lucia di Lammermoor has become a staple of the standard operatic repertoire, and appears as number thirteen on Opera America's list of the 20 most-performed operas in North America.[

What? For this trash?

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/buR1aPMAmPs

[knight66]

Well, now we know. Trashing the best of it, so, clearly a lost cause. See you in court! 

Mike

[zamyrabyrd]

Hmm well I meant the composers mentioned by Tsarlon, Rossini, Bellini ext...

and when I said popular, I meant popular amongst opera fans.

If I am not mistaken, Lucia Di Lammermoor is the most performed bel canto opera, and it doesn't have a even a minute of good music, and doesn't deserve its popularity.

How about Mozart, Mozart?

[Elgarian]

Why is bel canto so popular when its so terrible?

Not terrible: like beer, it's an acquired taste; but also in my experience the acquisition of the taste doesn't follow a simple pattern.

My early impressions of bel canto were that it consists of displays of virtuoso technique purely for the sake of it - and as such, I simply wasn't interested. But it only took one live performance of Bellini's Capuleti e Montecchi to make me realise there was a lot more to it than that. But even though I found I could then enter into the spirit of Bellini in a way that I hadn't been able to previously, I still couldn't enjoy Donizetti (and still can't). No matter - I'm happy to wait for the right moment.

You might find this bit of Bellini less terrible, for instance? No question here of technique for technique's sake: the music is full of expression and drama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXRK0PICpX8&feature=related

[Tsaraslondon]

To Mozart.

Well I suppose you can't please all the people all the time, though just saying something is trash is pretty poor criticism in my book. Of course some people just like to be controversial. I would, at least however, point out that I am not alone in my love of this music.

We must not be ashamed to shed a tear and express emotion. It is not a crime to believe in this music. People think that I detest the entire Italian school, in particular Bellini. This is not true – a thousand times no! Bellini is my first preference, because there is strength in his vocal writing, and his music lends itself so perfectly to the original text .... Of all Bellini's operas, Norma is the one which unites the richest flow of melody with the deepest glow of truth .... I admire Norma's melodic inspiration, which joins the most intimate passion to the most profound reality; a great score that talks straight to the heart – a work of genius.

The words are Richard Wagner's.

[Coopmv]

There is an audio company named Bel Canto ...

[Sarastro]

If I am not mistaken, Lucia Di Lammermoor is the most performed bel canto opera, and it doesn't have a even a minute of good music, and doesn't deserve its popularity.
What? For this trash?

If I am not mistaken, it's called "trolling". And in some places they ban for it. At least, you could provide an argument why it is so bad.

[DarkAngel]

This is a ridiculous pointless discussion thread...........

But just for the record most frequently performed Bel Canto opera surely has to be Rossini's Barber of Seville

[Mozart]

My early impressions of bel canto were that it consists of displays of virtuoso technique purely for the sake of it - and as such, I simply wasn't interested.

Thats pretty much my opinion now. The music seems unrelated to the plot. It doesn't cause any emotional reaction in me except annoyance.

I've heard Bellini's Norma, at least most of it. And the beggining really caught my attention, but is has the Carmen effect. Carmen is a perfectly nice opera, but it can drive me mad listening to it all at once.

Well, now we know. Trashing the best of it, so, clearly a lost cause. See you in court!  Police

Mike

Not even Anna Moffo could move me with Lucia. I first heard it with Sutherland, just skimmed it when I was a noob, because it was being performed in my local theater. I know the aria Spargi D'amaro well from a Callas cd I have, but if thats the reason the opera is popular, its not good enough! The music was never tragic in any way. It just seems to be a woman dying of an orgasm.

How about Mozart, Mozart?

Ahhh Mozart, now we have a real opera composer. No one understood opera like him. Le Nozze Di Figaro has a well deserved pedestal in my heart. But even when the kid was 14, he wrote damn interesting arias! In my opinion Handel, Mozart, and Verdi are the 3 greatest opera composers. Their music soars above their competition. Not only in 1 work, but consistently.


I agree with W about Norma having nice melodies, the glow of truth is not a very bright glow though.

But just for the record most frequently performed Bel Canto opera surely has to be Rossini's Barber of Seville

AHhh yess. I find I can listen to the first 30 minutes of it and enjoy it, but then I wonder when something is actually going to happen? When is the music going to wow me? And it doesn't ever come, its just the same 10 minutes for the entire 2 or 3 hrs of opera. Worse, Rossini's other operas I've heard sound exactly the same!

[Tsaraslondon]

Mozart, apart from on your views on Mozart, we are obviously diametrically opposed, which is why we will never agree. I admit that, with certain singers, the music of the Bel Canto can sound like nothing more than vocal doodling and showing off, but I had hoped that the revolution Callas created in the 50s had put paid to all that. Listen to the way she sings all those downward scales in the Mad Scene from I Puritani, where they emerge as the sighs of a clouded soul.

And I know you are not alone. Klemperer had similar feelings about Bel Canto, except, like Wagner, for Norma, which is a very great opera. Ditto Carmen, another opera much admired by Wagner.

Apart from Mozart, who are your favourite composers?

[Mozart]

My 2nd favorite opera composer after Mozart is Handel. I spent a good 10 months of my life doing nothing but listen to him. It was a depressing time for me, but certainly not because of the music. No other baroque composer really makes me feel things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/ePgwEBvYKXE

What really impresses me is how the same words are used over and over and yet still each line is different and adds something. And its like each line builds the next until the feeling of the aria is released through some coloratura.

Here is another one I like
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/xFWtd8GKlxQ&feature=channel_page
No! Non sara cosi!

And my favorite (if you don't mind the length) which I find to be very powerful

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/RrrEGfgz-rg


Opps I got lost into the music and the person i was chatting with got angry Anyways Handel taught me how to interpret coloratura. Its funny though that the majority of the time, I have no clue what the character is actually going through, I have to try and translate the weird baroque opera italian to add some extra understanding.




After Mozart and Handel comes Verdi. I know you could probably tell me the similarities between him and the other Italian composer I've mentioned, but Verdi is just superior in every way. Certainly some of his music is very powerfully emotionally, and I like how the story is continuous, but even arias that aren't moving emotionally I still enjoy more than any bel canto aria. And this I can't explain why, except maybe the music just is better?

Since you like Callas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?//1XWcRrDTtJ8

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/MBW5a77wINQ

I much prefer the first, even if I got to know the 2nd one long ago.

[jochanaan]

...Carmen is a perfectly nice opera, but it can drive me mad listening to it all at once...

Are you just listening?  Because opera is as much a visual medium as a musical one.  If you have never seen a live performance, or at least a DVD (either of a live performance or produced for film), you're only getting half the experience.

I have seen The Barber of Seville, and it was a very enjoyable experience.  Haven't seen Lucia or Norma or many of the other "bel canto" operas, so I can't judge.