The right way to go for Chopin's Piano Concerti?

[orbital]

Since you have not made up your mind yet, I thought I confuse you just a bit more  

Most people have problems with the orchestration of the concerti (particularly the 1st), although I don't see what the problem exactly is (except that they are not very interesting), if you share this concern I could perhaps point you into two directions

1 - Different orchestration: There are two re-orchestrations of the 1st concerto. One by Tausig (which I have a recording of, and I much prefer it to the original, but unforunately the only release of this version by [I think] Harmonia Mundi is nowhere to be found), the other by Balakirev. Now, Gulda plays this version on his GPOC. The tuttis are not very different than the original. Actually the only major difference I could dedect was that the brass section is pumped up a bit. The playing on this recording is a little hurried (1st movement in undr 19 mins) but not bad.
2 - Chamber Version (ducks from Drasko's wrath   ).I know this is a concerto and it needs an orchestra, composers wishes, intentions, horn calls and all that, but this version has one of the best Chopin playing I've heard:

It may not be a PC per se, but it is damn good music, and after a while that's all that matters.

[George]

2 - Chamber Version (ducks from Drasko's wrath   ).I know this is a concerto and it needs an orchestra, composers wishes, intentions, horn calls and all that, but this version has one of the best Chopin playing I've heard:

It may not be a PC per se, but it is damn good music, and after a while that's all that matters.

Me needs to hear that one.   

[Dancing Divertimentian]

You think? Not going NEAR Zimerman after that Brahms Piano Concerto No. 1 with Rattle/BPO.

Mark,

Don't let a bad experience with the Brahms disc sour you on this Chopin recording.

Sometimes performers don't know when to leave well enough alone and get a little too ambitious, delving into territory best left untouched. Maybe, when all's said and done, Brahms simply didn't suit Zimerman's palette, or maybe Rattle sunk the ship, or whatever. Can't say for sure but I DO know that clunkers happen even to the best of performers with the best of intentions.

Now, I haven't heard this Zimerman/Brahms recording in its entirety so can't give detailed remarks but whatever bad traits might inhibit this disc don't inhibit this beautifully organic Chopin set.

The one thing I like about this Chopin set is the positioning of the piano in sympathetic opposition to the orchestra. IOW, this isn't a trapeze-act, virtuoso whirlwind of pianistic wizardry fired off in complete indifference to the orchestra. The piano is perfectly positioned to build off the orchestra, and vice versa. Both sides feed off each other in a poetic give and take that make the musical argument something quite characterful, not to mention colorful, etc...

In fact, I'd bet it's this very eschewing of piano pyrotechnics (in favor of poetry) that rubs Tony (Sidoze) the wrong way (yes/no, Tony? ).

In comparison, Pogorelich's recording of the 2nd PC lacks the poetic integration of forces and hence loses out a bit for me (but is still a tour de force!!).

Anyway, the Zimerman is all beautifully done to these ears and makes such musical magic I, well, don't mind recommending it!

Oh, and it's sumptuously recorded, too...

[Mark]

Donwyn, thank you for that assessment.

Orbital, I'm already a step ahead of you - I have this: Chopin Piano Concerti (Chamber Versions). The one you cited is also on eMusic, so I can try that out, too.

[BachQ]

Donwyn, thank you for that assessment.

Yeah, right ........ it doesn't matter what anyone says ........ You've already been poisoned against Zimerman  

[Mark]

Yeah, right ........ it doesn't matter what anyone says ........ You've already been poisoned against Zimerman  

Not necessarily. I did copy that Rattle/BPO/Zimerman CD before returning it to the library. I might yet be persuaded.

[sidoze]

In fact, I'd bet it's this very eschewing of piano pyrotechnics (in favor of poetry) that rubs Tony (Sidoze) the wrong way (yes/no, Tony? ).

No.

Speaking of both works on one disc, I forgot about Rosenthal's recording of PC 1, the one I like most with Sokolov's. It's now on a single CD with Hofmann's PC 2.

http://www.altaramusic.com/html/more_info12.html

It used to be available on Pearl but that's OOP.

[orbital]

Donwyn, thank you for that assessment.

Orbital, I'm already a step ahead of you - I have this: Chopin Piano Concerti (Chamber Versions). The one you cited is also on eMusic, so I can try that out, too.

I got that one too, based on the fact that Rubinstein thought very highly of her. But I prefer Shiraga on BIS. I'd say go for it, but only if you like the chamber concept of course.

[Mark]

I got that one too, based on the fact that Rubinstein thought very highly of her. But I prefer Shiraga on BIS. I'd say go for it, but only if you like the chamber concept of course.

I love the chamber versions, so that's a no-brainer, thanks.

[Drasko]

[George]

I gave my Argerich/Dutoit recording of the 2 PCs today.

I can say that my mind wandered off when the orchestra played and each time Argerich appeared it was like a double shot of expresso. I say it's worth it just to hear her beautiful tone and the infectious excitement in her playing. The orchestral part is always a bore anyway, so to me, it's all about the pianist. And I still have no want or need to hear anyone else play these works. This is from a guy who has 8 sets of the Nocturnes. 

Mark, its DDD, need I say more?     

[Mark]

I gave my Argerich/Dutoit recording of the 2 PCs today.

I can say that my mind wandered off when the orchestra played and each time Argerich appeared it was like a double shot of expresso. I say it's worth it just to hear her beautiful tone and the infectious excitement in her playing. The orchestral part is always a bore anyway, so to me, it's all about the pianist. And I still have no want or need to hear anyone else play these works. This is from a guy who has 8 sets of the Nocturnes. 

Mark, its DDD, need I say more?    

Keep talking, George, keep talking.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

The orchestral part is always a bore anyway, so to me, it's all about the pianist.  

That's precisely why I keep harping on the Zimerman set!!  0:)

In Zimerman's hands we get the best of both worlds: orchestra as a vital, interactive entity, and piano as leading force.

It's the full concerto treatment! Nothing inconsequential.

[George]

That's precisely why I keep harping on the Zimerman set!!  0:)

In Zimerman's hands we get the best of both worlds: orchestra as a vital, interactive entity, and piano as leading force.

It's the full concerto treatment! Nothing inconsequential.

Someday I'll hear it. We've agreed on enough things to make me take notice when you suggest things. 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Someday I'll hear it. We've agreed on enough things to make me take notice when you suggest things. 

Ditto, my friend!

[sidoze]

In Zimerman's hands we get the best of both worlds: orchestra as a vital, interactive entity, and piano as leading force.

There are other recordings in which the orchestra plays the same vital, interactive role, all without the gross highlighting and heavy-handed "look what I'm doing, it's so beautiful" approach which Zimerman takes. It's a type of bloated Pre-Raphaelite poetry which I don't like much.

[Poetdante]

Well, this is an obviously controversial recording.
Whether someone like this or not depends on individual preference.
But, especially in Concerto No.1, this is so amazing album.
Somebody can dislike these butter-like orchestration,
No one can ever play the orchestration part brightfully like this recording.
Also, Zimerman's playing is perfect, I think. Particularly in 3rd movement of No.1,
his articulation and tone is so colorful, and fulfilled with elaborated rubatos.

If I have to choose just 1 Chopin PC recordings, maybe I pick this. 

[BachQ]

Good.  Another vote for Zimerman.

Let's keep fighting this out until we have solid consensus .......... 

[Bunny]

Another vote for the Zimerman.

[Bunny]

There are other recordings in which the orchestra plays the same vital, interactive role, all without the gross highlighting and heavy-handed "look what I'm doing, it's so beautiful" approach which Zimerman takes. It's a type of bloated Pre-Raphaelite poetry which I don't like much.

Yes, but I also love Martha Argerich, so tastes will differ.  The Zimerman floats my boat.