The Classical Style

[Haffner]

You big dummy! If axed, she'd be dead! 

(Histrionically grabs chest) "I'm comin' ta join yuh, honey!"

[George]

(Histrionically grabs chest) "I'm comin' ta join yuh, honey!"

(Where's Lamonte when we need him?)

[Steve]

No more than people's admiration of Beethoven, Shostakovich, Haydn, Mozart and Mahler.

Isn't it all a matter of subjective experience, 71db?

[johnQpublic]

E.T.A. Hoffmann's musical works? How do they stand up in terms of Romantic content?

Actually after listening to my cpo disc (see below) a number of times this week I can say he sounds more like heavy-Mozart with a touch of early Schubert,rather than the Beethoven-lite I suggested earlier. All of his slow intros sound like the one from Don Gioanni especially the dramatic dimished 7th chords.

[Sean]

My contribution here is that the baroque-classical transition was indeed a transitional period and the music of Bach's sons and the early Mannheim figures is indeed downright odd. There's no getting away from the assurances of high baroque and classical styles.

[Steve]

My contribution here is that the baroque-classical transition was indeed a transitional period and the music of Bach's sons and the early Mannheim figures is indeed downright odd. There's no getting away from the assurances of high baroque and classical styles.

[Ten thumbs]

Whilst it is easy to see why one would home in on Haydn and Mozart when discussing the Classical style, this is really jumping in at the deep end. One would learn much more by studying the hundreds of minor Classical composers who went before them. To be thorough, why not begin with Alberti? and to be partisan i'll plug one of my favourites: Giovanni Platti.

[lukeottevanger]

Well, the music of WF and CPE Bach is often very odd. Sean's right. But that's why I like it so much. It's very human stuff.

[karlhenning]

Well, the music of WF and CPE Bach is often very odd. Sean's right. But that's why I like it so much. It's very human stuff.

Yes, strange especially of Sean to discount something just for deviating from the mainstrean 

[lukeottevanger]

Yes, strange especially of Sean to discount something just for deviating from the mainstrean 

Oooh, Karl, you are naughty  0:)

[Steve]

Well, the music of WF and CPE Bach is often very odd. Sean's right. But that's why I like it so much. It's very human stuff.

I don't know if I'd say odd, but simply unexpected. These are two composers whose orchestration is so much a mystery to me at times, that I'm unable to predict the next phrase! If only for that (there are other reasons, of course) I listen intently. 

[lukeottevanger]

I don't know if I'd say odd, but simply unexpected.

It's both! I'm particularly referring to their keyboard works, where the peculiarities of the empfindsamer stil are most marked. It is most extreme in WF Bach, and here odd is often the only word for it - phrases that dart off in the most wild, angular ways, and then stop in mid air; bizarre harmonic sequences, enormous melodic leaps, sudden stylistic shifts turning on a sixpence, wildly ornament-encrusted lines etc., etc.. However, that is why I love it so much.

[Ten thumbs]

Bach's sone were very interesting but most of the early Classical composers were Italian.

[DavidW]

I'm sorry for dropping off this thread.  I wanted to wait until I had proper time to read more and pose good questions, but instead what happened was that I got interested in something off and never came back.

[Gurn Blanston]

I'm sorry for dropping off this thread.  I wanted to wait until I had proper time to read more and pose good questions, but instead what happened was that I got interested in something off and never came back.

Glad you're back now though. Let's see, where were we? Hmmm....

[Mozart]

Glad you're back now though. Let's see, where were we? Hmmm....

I think we were about hail Mozart as supreme composer.

[Mozart]

Okay my first batch of questions--

1. This actually came from an off topic remark on a Mahler/Bruckner thread.  Do you think that Mozart's motivic development is more difficult to follow than Haydn and Beethoven?  I don't have any problem with most of his orchestral music, but Mozart's chamber music can be tricky to follow at times.  Haydn, in contrast, doesn't seem quite as difficult to follow.  Or is this the case of me focusing on a few works that give the wrong picture?  For Mozart, it's later chamber works like his quintet for piano and winds that have been on my mind, and for Haydn his Op 33 String Quartets.  I could be misled.

Dude this is the weirdest thing I've ever read? Haydn's "motivic" development is easy to you, but Mozart's is hard? Haydn starts with crap and in his good pieces develops it into something good. Mozart starts with perfection and then just plays around with more perfection. I probably already commented on this earlier but its been months ago. I love when Mozart dives into minor keys randomly and the just pops out of them like nothing happened. Its really cool.

[Mozart]

So how do composers actually "develop" the music?

[DavidW]

So how do composers actually "develop" the music?

They take blank scores to a dark room, they treat them with baths of acetic acid and then formaldehyde.  If they desire chromatic music, they have to take the additional step of using bleach.  As they dry the musical notes will appear on the score.

[Don]

Bach's sone were very interesting but most of the early Classical composers were Italian.

Any numbers to back up this claim?