Islamic & sufi chant

[Sean]

Presently trying some of this: the Koran recitation chant, from Turkey on the CD, has this imperious quality one can only detest in religions- there's this hauty stooping edge in the solo male singer reflective of Islam's familial neurosis and mindless misogyny. As with various other languages, childlike uneducated sounds dominate, the whole voice production process being undeveloped; Arabic is an array of slurry scary sounds that have the nature of declamation rather being used to think with.

The sufi chant is a repetitive harmless affair with ensemble supposed to tend toward spiritual states of mind- John Tavener likes it but there's little to it: I've borrowed a recording from Syria.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

The relevance of Koranic chanting to a board devoted to classical music escapes me.

Anyone interested in the "How to convert to Islam" link above this thread?

[Sean]

Thankfully you can't lynch a disembodied person, so I write as I feel.

[canninator]

The relevance of Koranic chanting to a board devoted to classical music escapes me.

Anyone interested in the "How to convert to Islam" link above this thread?

Koranic chanting and the old Roman Psalm tones are derived from the now lost Jewish recitation formulas for the synagogue. The psalm tones and chant are of central importance to the development of Western music (as is, of course, the development of the liturgy). A lot of the chant/liturgical traditions (Koran, Antioch, Byzantine, Orthodox, Roman, Ambrosian, Milanese, Gallic, Beneventan etc) produce music of deep spirituality and beauty (even if this is anathema in the Koranic chant tradition). I personally think there is not enough discussion of repertoires allied to everything pre-Notre Dame/Compostela/St Martial. Maybe it is too niche an interest to garner any discussion. It certainly doesn't help when people like the OP judge these traditions according to their own personal prejudice quite so obviously.

[Sean]

Hi Furioso, we could discuss such matters; I recently got hold of some 4th c Byzantine chant and I know some Ambriosian from the following centuries: the Byzantine was more briskly melodic than average Gregorian examples. I've also explored a 7th c mass with some Jewish overtones and some old Spanish chant...

I'd stand by my opening post though, and my experience of Islamic cultures.

[bassio]

Mr. Sean

Unfortunately, I find your post, most unfortunately, completely uneducated. (this is, of course, disregarding the xenophobic, racist undertones)

I would have certainly disregarded the ignorant post except for perhaps the fine musicians and listeners on this board which I do care they are not deluded by your amateur views in this scope.

(Disclaimer: I am a muslim, and by the way of the above uneducated post became labelled both neurotic and misogynistic!
Regardless, the scope I referred to above is the 'musical' scope and am referring only to the uneducated 'musical' opinions of Mr. Sean relating to the topic title, this being a music discussion forum and there are members who would love to learn.. that Mr. Sean's opinions regarding that matter are, to say the least, impulsive!)

[canninator]

Hi Furioso, we could discuss such matters; I recently got hold of some 4th c Byzantine chant and I know some Ambriosian from the following centuries: the Byzantine was more briskly melodic than average Gregorian examples. I've also explored a 7th c mass with some Jewish overtones and some old Spanish chant...

I'd stand by my opening post though, and my experience of Islamic cultures.

It's pretty much impossible to compare a 4th century Byzantine chant to a Gregorian chant. For starters, without knowing the recording, a 4th century Byzantine source will be text only and so any music will be reconstructed from identical texts of later manuscripts and orthodox performance practice. It is impossible to have any idea or ornamentation and rhythm (for any repertoire before the introduction of rhythmic modes by the Notre Dame School). Even the early Gregorian melodies are near impossible to read when notated with staffless heightened neumes and so it is only from the 11-12th century that any sense can be made of this material and even then only the melodic contour. I think the best thing therefore is to accept these repertoires on their own terms as comparison is probably futile.

What 7 c mass are you referring to? There are of course no mass cycles from this period so at best this must be a reconstructed Old Roman plainchant mass.

Edit: I've just read through your post again and realized I completely misinterpreted it with respect to the comparison you drew and the manner in which you are doing so. My bad!

[Sean]

bassio & furioso

Thanks for the replies. We can perhaps make a double passing lane's space around the religious issues in this case (I'm Hindu). Cheers.