Chopin's Mazurkas

[orbital]

Unless you have poetic license a la Andrzej Wasowski, op. 68/4 -

I think it was Wasowski who came to New York sometime in the 80's and played the full mazurkas (minus woO ones) in one recital. I think a first and a last occurence of such sort.

[orbital]

which I might add is available here for a hefty price 
http://www.amazon.com/Chopin-51-Mazurkas-Fryderyk/dp/B0000006TD

[SimonGodders]

which I might add is available here for a hefty price 
http://www.amazon.com/Chopin-51-Mazurkas-Fryderyk/dp/B0000006TD

Wow! They sound really interesting, but don't think I'll purchase in a hurry at those prices...

[sidoze]

Thank you very much for this - a beautiful performance of an extraordinary piece, not too languid as some performances are; still a dance in the outer sections Got any more like this?

Glad you liked it too He only recorded 4 pieces by Chopin, one being my favourite performance of Waltz 64/2. For your pleasure (hopefully):

http://download.yousendit.com/65F21297048290B5

I didn't quite understand what you meant by this: "echoing the choreography of the relationship between the male and female dancers" Could you explain please?

As for mini tone poem, one certainly is 50/3, the one you've already written about. The ending is breathtaking, among the most dramatic things he wrote, I think.

I think it was Wasowski who came to New York sometime in the 80's and played the full mazurkas (minus woO ones) in one recital. I think a first and a last occurence of such sort.

I have the Wasowski recording and it mentions in the liner notes that his all-mazurka programme in NY was hailed as a milestone by the critics. He plays them slowly and heavily -- sometimes it seems excessive while other times very beautiful. Depends how you like it I guess. I have his complete Nocturnes too, same approach, not to my liking as he misses rhythmic subtleties (the Nocturnes dance too y'know). I plan to sell both in the next week or two as I never listen to them.

[lukeottevanger]

I didn't quite understand what you meant by this: "echoing the choreography of the relationship between the male and female dancers" Could you explain please?

Yes, sorry, that could have been better expressed! I simply meant that some of the Mazurkas, especially the more 'rustic' ones, 'tell a story' in that in them we can sense a residue of the original folk dance - especially the relationship between the male and female dancers, which itself seems to be formalised and 'narrative'. Chopin does this registrally - by counterpointing higher and lower registers - but also formally and by means of canonic devices and so on. My score makes the point on at least one occasion that a particular musical feature is recalling an aspect of the 'original' choreography in this way, and though I'm not sure how reliable it is in this respect, it seems to make sense when one plays the pieces. The one I can remember right now is a dance move which my book calls 'la fuite' which Chopin represents by a fast, straightforward canon in two voices.

[Ten thumbs]

The choreography is certainly important (and annoyingly mostly described in rather obscure French terms). This is not a circular dance like the waltz but a sideways promenade on the offbeat. Apart from the melodic elements one must savour this syncopation, the accent being most often on the second beat. The Op.30 set brings this out particularly well and they are among my favourites.
One should also be careful not to slow these dances too much or the poor dancers will fall over! In particular, op.33 No1 and No4 have the indication 'Mesto'. This does NOT mean slow. Allegretto is appropriate.
If you don't find the mazurka sexy, maybe that is because it is basically an elegant dance (even when fast). The man has plenty of opportunities to posture and show off and improvisation is permitted, or even expected (modern young men please note!). It was also the last dance of the ball, when minds might be turning elsewhere.

[sidoze]

How about this for a mazurka?

http://download.yousendit.com/2DB201300FF1AF98

Scriabin Mazurka in E minor, Op. 25/3, played by Sofronitsky

[orbital]

And you'd think Chopin's mazurkas had ethereal endings 

[orbital]

I was going to  start a favorite mazurka(s) thread, but there are so many, and a poll therefore is not an option. Better to resurrect this thread!

Am I alone in thinking that Mazurka Op30/4 in c-sharp differs from almost all others in the way it is constructed and how it sounds? (Sort of like op 48/1 in nocturnes)

Typically, Chopin's mazurkas are binary in form (ABA), but this one is quite different in that one theme transforms into the next one without a leap in between. I find it to be the most mesmerizing of all the mazurkas. I don't know if I can say it is my favorite, but it may certainly be the most beautiful   

Just wanted to share   

[Novi]

I was going to  start a favorite mazurka(s) thread, but there are so many, and a poll therefore is not an option. Better to resurrect this thread!

Am I alone in thinking that Mazurka Op30/4 in c-sharp differs from almost all others in the way it is constructed and how it sounds? (Sort of like op 48/1 in nocturnes)

Typically, Chopin's mazurkas are binary in form (ABA), but this one is quite different in that one theme transforms into the next one without a leap in between. I find it to be the most mesmerizing of all the mazurkas. I don't know if I can say it is my favorite, but it may certainly be the most beautiful   

Just wanted to share   

Thanks for posting your thoughts. I love the chromaticism in the coda.

[orbital]

Thanks for posting your thoughts. I love the chromaticism in the coda.

Yes it works great here. However, I suspect that he uses it as a trick to go back to earlier material in some pieces. I don't have any particular ones in mind right now, but there are times where those chromatic steps are clearly there to get back to the theme fast.

But again, there are occasional surprises even there. For example in the 2nd movement of PC1, the music steps back chromatically to the an earlier theme, but does not go all the way, it rather stops 1 1/2 (IIRC) notes before it reaches the main key and the sequence is repeated from there. The effect is so naturally sounding that I would have never realized that the repeat is off a different key had I not tried to learn the piano part.

[Novi]

Yes it works great here. However, I suspect that he uses it as a trick to go back to earlier material in some pieces. I don't have any particular ones in mind right now, but there are times where those chromatic steps are clearly there to get back to the theme fast.

But again, there are occasional surprises even there. For example in the 2nd movement of PC1, the music steps back chromatically to the first theme, but does not go all the way, it rather stops 1 1/2 (IIRC) notes before it reaches the main key and the sequence is repeated from there. The effect is so naturally sounding that I would have never realized that the repeat is off a different key had I not tried to learn the piano part.

Interesting comments - are you saying that these chromatic steps are sometimes used (lazily, pragmatically and less effectively?) as a short cut? I'm going to have to take some time to mull over your comments and listen more closely to several of these works. (I find the chromaticism in the coda of the second ballade a turn-on as well ).

[George]

Am I alone in thinking that Mazurka Op30/4 in c-sharp differs from almost all others in the way it is constructed and how it sounds? (Sort of like op 48/1 in nocturnes)

I just listened to 4 pianists (Wasowski, Smith, Luisada, Ashkenazy) play this one. It sure is lovely. Wasowski was the one that I most enjoyed.   

[orbital]

Interesting comments - are you saying that these chromatic steps are sometimes used (lazily, pragmatically and less effectively?) as a short cut? I'm going to have to take some time to mull over your comments and listen more closely to several of these works. (I find the chromaticism in the coda of the second ballade a turn-on as well ).

Short cut is what I had in mind, but it does not have to be out of laziness (in fact I would never think Chopin as lazy). It might just be an effective tool to go back to the earlier theme -particularly if it is a small scale work. This is just a thought I had with no musical (theory or otherwise) background to back it up with.