Beethoven Violin Concerto

[Dancing Divertimentian]

  And not for the first time, eh, Don?

Nope.

[jlaurson]

What good taste you have, what good choices you make, Sgt! 

My favorite happens to be:

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/01/dip-your-ears-no-50_25.html

Dip Your Ears, No. 50

L. van Beethoven, Violin Concerto, Romances, Zehetmair / Brüggen / O.d.18th Ct. Philips (original release)

L. van Beethoven, Violin Concerto, Romances, Zehetmair / Brüggen / O.d.18th Ct. Decca (re-release, German link)

It hasn't made it to the US as an 'indigenous' re-issue yet, though.

French link.
UK link
US link

Two recordings that sort of approximate Zehetmair/Brueggen:

L. van Beethoven, Violin Concerto, Romances, Tetzlaff / Zinman / Tonhalle Arte Nova

L. van Beethoven, F. Mendelssohn-B. Violin Concertos, Mullova / Gardiner / O.R&R Philips (oop but available)

That said, I also like Milstein, Steinbacher, and probably several others if and when forced to remember. The best live performance I've ever heard--by far--was with Julia Fischer.

[Bunny]

I must be slipping -- a quick check has shown that I also have the Mullova/Gardiner recording, and it's even on my ipod. I wonder why I didn't recall it? 

[Sorin Eushayson]

I must be slipping -- a quick check has shown that I also have the Mullova/Gardiner recording, and it's even on my ipod. I wonder why I didn't recall it? 

Probably because it didn't make an impact!  I used to listen to that myself, but after I got the Bruggen/Zehetmair recording it hasn't seen any playtime.  Here's a nice sample of their work with the third movement...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILHu4PiXYY0

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Probably because it didn't make an impact!  I used to listen to that myself, but after I got the Bruggen/Zehetmair recording it hasn't seen any playtime. 

There's plenty of "impact" from Mullova/Gardiner to go around. Just as there's plenty of impact from Herreweghe's Bach...

[Sorin Eushayson]

There's plenty of "impact" from Mullova/Gardiner to go around. Just as there's plenty of impact from Herreweghe's Bach...

Really, the Gardiner recording totes the same line that most other performances of this piece do, i.e. they treat it like a gentle pastoral instead of the rousing concerto that it is.  In fact, I'd say that's how Herreweghe's Bach comes across, at least with regards to his B Minor Mass, though that's another topic.

*AHEM*  If you wanna continue the discussion, though, we've got a whole topic on this with loads of examples over at CMM where we'd be more than happy to press onward.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Really, the Gardiner recording totes the same line that most other performances of this piece do, i.e. they treat it like a gentle pastoral instead of the rousing concerto that it is.  In fact, I'd say that's how Herreweghe's Bach comes across, at least with regards to his B Minor Mass, though that's another topic.

You seem to be forgetting the most important aspect of this piece: the violinist. Mullova isn't and has never been a cookie-cutter musician. To even suggest she is means you've absolutely no idea what she's all about.

*AHEM*  If you wanna continue the discussion, though, we've got a whole topic on this with loads of examples over at CMM where we'd be more than happy to press onward.

Not my bag...

[Lilas Pastia]

Probably because it didn't make an impact!  I used to listen to that myself, but after I got the Bruggen/Zehetmair recording it hasn't seen any playtime.  Here's a nice sample of their work with the third movement...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILHu4PiXYY0

There are good things in it, but I find it hard to stomach the mix of explosive orchestral outbursts and prissy dynamic and rythmic adjustments. None of that have their source in the score (otherwise it would always have been played thus). Honestly, I found the experience disagreeable.

[Bunny]

Probably because it didn't make an impact!  I used to listen to that myself, but after I got the Bruggen/Zehetmair recording it hasn't seen any playtime.  Here's a nice sample of their work with the third movement...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILHu4PiXYY0

I've had the Zehetmair/Bruggen for years as well.  That one is not on my ipod because I wasn't using it as a comparison to the Tetzlaff which I think is probably my favorite modern instrument version.  I wanted to compare the cadenzas as the Tetzlaff uses a cadenza adapted from Beethoven's reworking of the concerto for piano.  The Mullova, I believe, had a new cadenza (by Ottavio Dantone?).  I have to admit that the Bruggen is one of the best period instrument versions, but I still have a soft spot for the Vera Beths, which was the first HIP recording of the concerto I heard.

[Tyson]

New school, I'd say Mullova or Zehetmair are my faves, while for old school you just can't beat the patrician beauty of Schneiderhan & Jochum.  Milstein is also a favorite, a bit more fire and intensity than Schneiderhan, but I'm not entirely sure that's what this work needs.

[Lilas Pastia]

According to my tastes, a HIP version would have to retain the nobility and sweetness I appreciate in this work. Tetzlaff and Gielen give a mercurial yet probing account. One of my favourites, and the one I think is closest to hipness, without the distorted orchestra.

[MichaelRabin]

Barak - you mean Tetzlaff & Zinman (not Gielen) on Arte Nova.

[Lilas Pastia]

No, I mean Tetzlaff and Gielen (SWF Baden-Baden) on Classic Masters. It predates the Tetzlaff-Zinman account, having been recorded in 1988.

Still available on Amazon. One of these cheapo productions that are licensed from one label  to the other. Mine has a totally different cove.

[DavidRoss]

Re. Zehetmair/Brüggen:

There are good things in it, but I find it hard to stomach the mix of explosive orchestral outbursts and prissy dynamic and rythmic adjustments. None of that have their source in the score (otherwise it would always have been played thus). Honestly, I found the experience disagreeable.

Huh?  Is there something very wrong with your playback gear?  To my ears, the rhythmic and dynamic FLEXIBILITY of Brüggen's Beethoven is not only very appealing, but is more consistent with my sense of Beethoven's own conducting style than almost any other, epitomizing historically INFORMED performance practice, and with the added delightful sonorities of period instruments.

With 3000+ posts I presume that you're an old hand at GMG who's taken on a new handle.  What was your old user name? 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

With 3000+ posts I presume that you're an old hand at GMG who's taken on a new handle.  What was your old user name?

He was Lilas (André).

[MichaelRabin]

No, I mean Tetzlaff and Gielen (SWF Baden-Baden) on Classic Masters. It predates the Tetzlaff-Zinman account, having been recorded in 1988.

Still available on Amazon. One of these cheapo productions that are licensed from one label  to the other. Mine has a totally different cove.

Oh I see Barak. Better than the Zinman version?

[Lilas Pastia]

I don't know, I didn't hear the later version. All I know (from the Zinman reviews) is that it seems a bit rougher orchestrally. This clocks in at 39-40 minutes (22.5, 7.5, 9). How about the Arte Nova?

[Lilas Pastia]

I realise I forgot to mention one of my favourite versions, Aaron Rosand and the Monte-Carlo Philharmonic cond. by Derrick Inouye.  An unlikely collaboration. The MC orchestra is an old hand at recordings (french repertoire on EMI and DG in the 50s, 60s and 70s), but it's never been identified with the music of Beethoven. They are quite good anyway. But this is Rosand's - or, I should say Beethoven's - show. The interpretation is mercurial, poetic, virile and tender at once. Like Tetzlaff, he knocks the first movement in some 21 minutes, some 3-5 minutes shorter than Mutter, Szeryng, Perlman or Grumiaux. How much of that is due to the cadenza I don't know (he plays one by Heifetz), but that can't be more than a few seconds. Paired with an equally winning Brahms VC on a single budget Vox disc.

IMO Rosand, Tetzlaff and Heifetz prove that this concerto can beplayed in a way that gives the lie to the 20th century 'dérive' (drifting) toward 'Yellow River' and 'Butterfly Lovers' modern aesthetic. It should be noted that they are gamely followed by their respective conductors (Inouye, Gielen and Munch), none of whom could be accused of gilding the lily.

I'm writing this in defense of the 'modern' style of playing. In many HIP interpretations the focus of attention shifts from the soloist to the conductor. A totally non-HIP concept if ever there was one: those were the days when this concerto was premiered by the soloist showing off by playing his instrument upside down, and the Berlioz Requiem performed by a conductor taking his tobacco whiff just as he was to launch the Tuba mirum!  Lest it seem sacrilegious, I think music making in the 20th century (esp. past 1960-70) has often been  more faithful to Beethoven's intentions than what was the case 200 years earlier! Save for the ocasional vagrant interpreters such as Mutter or Perlman. Even those have their aesthetic merits, however misguided.

Considering the above, I think an artist like as Schneiderhan has been both a precursor to the new HIP and a true heir to 'authentic' HIP styles...

[Lilas Pastia]

I just realised I have two more potentially interesting versions to listen to, both downloads from live concerts:

- Tetzlaff with the Met Orchestra, James Levine  cond. Timings seem to imply that Levine's influence has been important here (3 minutes longer than with Gielen). From a 16.01.2007 concert.

- Kremer with the NDR Orchestra, Hamburg, Klaus Tensstedt cond. From a 11.12.1980 Hamburg concert. Kremer pays the Schnittke cadenzas.

[mjwal]

I can't seem to find a thread on this subject, so I'm using it to point at a new recording I have acquired. Hitherto I have been rather ambivalent about this work: either 1) the orchestra is interesting but the violin playing not so very characterful, or 2) vice versa - that is, from my point of view; I also dislike a) recordings which exude a kind of magisterial pseudo-pastoralism b) those which whizz adroitly through the work with great technical address but not much emotion. So I must reluctantly consign Menuhin/Furtwängler (1) and Huberman/Szell (2b) to the "take-it or leave-it category", look fairly favourably on Schneiderhan/Jochum without being too enthusiastic; only one recording has been my touchstone, even though the orchestra is rather undistinguished, that is the 1932 Szigeti with Walter and the British Symphony Orchestra. I will come now to my rave about Haendel/Ancerl, which is a live 1957 recording just issued by Supraphon with the Sibelius concerto (exciting but unfortunately not so well balanced IMO). I had the sense of undergoing a dangerously delightful journey, the music sounded much more modern, as biting as the Stravinsky concerto but less motoric, the drum tap motive taking on an almost minatory quality, with the result that the glorious humanity of the solo voice of the fiddle is tried and ripened in the context of an orchestral weave which never, as in my experience it very often does, just sings on in a rather plonking way, erecting an edifice of sound at the expense of inner complexity.
Some time ago I acquired a decent Beethoven VC with an excellent Britten by Janine Jansen (which latter competes with the Haendel in my affections, whereas the Zimmermann is brilliant but rather uninvolved to my ears) - kind of perky and bright but not very revealing. Perhaps I have just missed a number of great recordings - but I must say in advance that Perlman, for instance, is not my cup of tea. There seem to me to be so many great Brahms recordings and rather few of the Beethoven...What do you think?