Ottevanger's Omphaloskeptic Outpost

[karlhenning]

Luke: Paul & I are going to give Lunar Glare a couple of outings in May & June.  The two of us are likely to do a lot of rehearsing/playing this summer, so (not to rush you!) if you've got something in shape (or shape-ish) then, we can give it a test-drive.

[Sean]

Karl, I was wondering if you know anything of M forever, since the forum binned him again?- didn't you meet him?

Luke, I thought I'd mention I've been listening to the Fifth SQ of Tishchenko, which is a third Shostakovich but two thirds Janacek, the Janacek SQs otherwise being in a world of their own...

[karlhenning]

I've met with him a few times, Sean, but it's a while since last we crossed paths.

[greg]

I've met with him a few times, Sean, but it's a while since last we crossed paths the last time I jumped him and stole his lunch money.

Karl, how dare you! Give his money back to him this instant! 

[Guido]

Luke, I thought I'd mention I've been listening to the Fifth SQ of Tishchenko, which is a third Shostakovich but two thirds Janacek, the Janacek SQs otherwise being in a world of their own...

Is it really up to that quality though?

[Luke]

Sounds interesting, though - any time something is compared to Janacek I tend to rush towards it! Though in the end, I've almost never found anything else truly comparable. The connection Sean makes above reminds me of one I've read made between Shostakovich's 14th quartet and Janacek - but I've never really sensed that myself. Likewise, when I was studying Das Lied von der Erde with Sandy Goehr, I remember him saying that he could never really put his finger on how the 'Drunkard in Spring' movement worked until he had a conversation with Robin Holloway in which the later compared the orchestration to Janacek's - and again, I can't see that, I really can't. doesn't make either of them anything less than spectacularly wonderful pieces, of course...

The closest thing I've ever heard to Janacek, stylistically, is Pavel Haas's Wind Quintet (and of course Haas was a Janacek pupil, probably the best one), and maybe a few little odds and ends by other Czechs - a piano piece or two by Jarmil Burghauser or Miloslav Kabelac spring to mind. But really he's pretty much sui generis, stylistically, IMO. Nevertheless, I'll try to track down the pieces Sean mentions! 

Karl - right then, I'd better try to get cracking!

[Luke]

BTW, status report for those interested after my very dismal last year.....all exceedingly good right now, at last          So perhaps the composing juices will start flowing properly again soon...

[Sean]

Sounds interesting, though - any time something is compared to Janacek I tend to rush towards it! Though in the end, I've almost never found anything else truly comparable. The connection Sean makes above reminds me of one I've read made between Shostakovich's 14th quartet and Janacek - but I've never really sensed that myself. Likewise, when I was studying Das Lied von der Erde with Sandy Goehr, I remember him saying that he could never really put his finger on how the 'Drunkard in Spring' movement worked until he had a conversation with Robin Holloway in which the later compared the orchestration to Janacek's - and again, I can't see that, I really can't. doesn't make either of them anything less than spectacularly wonderful pieces, of course...

The closest thing I've ever heard to Janacek, stylistically, is Pavel Haas's Wind Quintet (and of course Haas was a Janacek pupil, probably the best one), and maybe a few little odds and ends by other Czechs - a piano piece or two by Jarmil Burghauser or Miloslav Kabelac spring to mind. But really he's pretty much sui generis, stylistically, IMO. Nevertheless, I'll try to track down the pieces Sean mentions! 

Karl - right then, I'd better try to get cracking!

Luke & Guido, I wasn't expecting all that! Guido, no this Tischenko is in the amiable Russian school and I don't expect to return to him for a long long time if ever. It's elegantly written though and the parallels with the Janacek are rather clear especially in the opening movement.

The library here has the classic Fitzwilliam Shos SQs survey, which I've been meaning to borrow, and I'll have to check out the supposed parallels with the 14th quarte- I know it from the Borodin; as for Das Lied, it remains Mahler's most misshapen major work. I've tried an orchestral piece by Kabelac and a couple of Haas works including an Oboe and piano suite, but Janacek's similarities with other great Czechs only extend little beyond the uniqueness of each.

You wouldn't expect a regular landlocked country in central-east Europe to be such a source of artistic peculiarity and achievement. My favourite moment in Czech music, epitomizing its wide-eyed luminous quality would be a few moments into the Dvorak Sixth (eg Kertesz) and those transcendent four note decending comments. As Brahms said, 'If only I could invent a main them as glorious as Dvorak's passing thoughts'.

[karlhenning]

BTW, status report for those interested after my very dismal last year.....all exceedingly good right now, at last          So perhaps the composing juices will start flowing properly again soon...

Huzzah x2!

[Luke]

As Brahms said, 'If only I could invent a main them as glorious as Dvorak's passing thoughts'.

But he did (I'm thinking of course of the third movement of his B flat piano concerto, whose main theme is so similar to the second subject in Dvorak's Seventh Symphony)!

Have you heard that Haas quintet, Sean? It's a gorgeous little piece, my favourite Haas by quite a distance (his quartets seem to be growing ever more popular, but this is the piece which works best for me)

Karl - exactly!!

[Sean]

But he did (I'm thinking of course of the third movement of his B flat piano concerto, whose main theme is so similar to the second subject in Dvorak's Seventh Symphony)!

Have you heard that Haas quintet, Sean? It's a gorgeous little piece, my favourite Haas by quite a distance (his quartets seem to be growing ever more popular, but this is the piece which works best for me)

Karl - exactly!!

Nope, will look out for it though- always love a recommendation.

[Luke]

So...............something is being written! Try not to faint....

[karlhenning]

Fire it up!

[greg]

I expect it to be done by today.

[Guido]

So...............something is being written! Try not to faint....

YAY!

[Luke]

Dear Deidre,

I have just written a triplet within a triplet within a triplet within a triplet, and I think it works. Should I be concerned and seek medical advice?

yours

A confused composer

[Luke]

Maybe I'm stupid but I'd never considered before that, like dotted and double dotted and triple dotted and dotted to the nth degree series of notes, nested tuplets are perfect examples of Zeno's paradox in operation!

Am I dumb, had everyone else noticed that years ago? I suppose it's obvious, I'd just never had reason to consider it, that's all. This is what I mean - in theory we could go on forever retripleting and never get to the second beat of the bar....except that Sibelius will only add so many layers of nesting before it gives up! Makes for a nice smooth written-out accelerando, anyway, which is how I've just used it, though it is also consistent with things that have already been happening in the piece. So hopefully it is justified!

[karlhenning]

Too many layers and (probably) there is some simpler way to notate it . . . but I have luxuriated in a triplet-within-a-triplet or two over the years . . . .

[greg]

I think you just made Ferneyhough's head explode! 

I never thought of it... I don't think I've even seen "a triplet within a triplet within a triplet within a triplet". Seems like it'd only work if you started out large enough (a quarter note value, for example).

[karlhenning]

One example from the coming concert . . . don't ask me if I'm playing it right, though ; )