Saul's Music Space

[Saul]

Out of those 3, I thought In the Woods was pretty nice. (interesting title for someone from New York- a title like is very stereotypical for Swedish melodic death metal) 

(and pretty impressive that you improvised that.) 

Now, for the Scherzo- was that a MIDI piano? Are those repeated notes even possible to play?

LOL thank you, glad you like 'The Woods' composition!

The Scherzo is a midi of course, its pretty difficult to play I'm sure you noticed that hehe.  You know that no one was able to play Beethoven's hammerklavier until  Liszt came along. Some said that Beethoven composed the music, and 'how to play it' was your own 'problem'.

Anyways, this is sort of what I did with this Scherzo, I knew that it would be almost impossible to pull of that measure with the 16th notes repeated but that's the only way I could have expressed and wanted to express myself in this music. Though now that I think about it, there is a way to edit that section so that it would be 'playable' but it for sure will take off an important charm from the piece, it will never be the same.

I have written 3 other Scherzos, in A major, E major and C sharp minor. I actually used to play the C sharp minor one some years back when I composed it, very enjoyable to play, perhaps I will do a recording in the near future and post it here. The other two in E  and A major are very pianistic and virtuosic, and that will need some time and lots of practicing before reaching a performance level.

Greg, where can I hear some of your music?

[greg]

Interesting, man. Well, I haven't written anything complete in a long time, so my stuff is pretty old. In fact, I've trashed a few works, cutting my opus list to 6. Right now, I'm just trying to learn all I can so I can write the orchestral work I'll be working on, which will take a while.

Well, Saul, I'll put up my revised opus list in a minute. 

[Saul]

Interesting, man. Well, I haven't written anything complete in a long time, so my stuff is pretty old. In fact, I've trashed a few works, cutting my opus list to 6. Right now, I'm just trying to learn all I can so I can write the orchestral work I'll be working on, which will take a while.

Well, Saul, I'll put up my revised opus list in a minute. 

This should be interesting.
If you ask me, this is the most important part of the entire site, discussing the works of resident composers of this website.
Would be great to hear some of your work.

[greg]

Alright! Got them all up:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3174.msg418525.html#msg418525

(they're all MIDI, though  )

[Saul]

Hey Greg, what do you think about my Orchestral work In C minor?

Score included in the vid...

Cheers,

Saul

http://www.youtube.com/v/XmYRukSj9sA

[greg]

I didn't think that was one of your better ones, Saul...

I don't know where to start on this one. 

If I could sum it up, it needs interesting lines, more complexity, and more movement in the harmony (some sort of modulation, for example).

Think how interesting a Bach fugue subject can sound alone. Make your lines that interesting. Just compare what you have here to that, and try to emulate that aspect next time you write a new work.

(And don't ever write repeated cello/bass chords like that ever again, please!  )

[petrarch]

I didn't think that was one of your better ones, Saul...

I don't know where to start on this one. 

If I could sum it up, it needs interesting lines, more complexity, and more movement in the harmony (some sort of modulation, for example).

Think how interesting a Bach fugue subject can sound alone. Make your lines that interesting. Just compare what you have here to that, and try to emulate that aspect next time you write a new work.

(And don't ever write repeated cello/bass chords like that ever again, please!  )

If I may interject here, I agree with all of the above. I felt it needed some more rhythmic variety (certainly more than the triplets on that crescendo) and richer modulation. I couldn't help but feel that the descending motif was leading my ear to think of Chopin's Funeral March.

[Saul]

I didn't think that was one of your better ones, Saul...

I don't know where to start on this one. 

If I could sum it up, it needs interesting lines, more complexity, and more movement in the harmony (some sort of modulation, for example).

Think how interesting a Bach fugue subject can sound alone. Make your lines that interesting. Just compare what you have here to that, and try to emulate that aspect next time you write a new work.

(And don't ever write repeated cello/bass chords like that ever again, please!  )

Greg and Petrack

You are both right on everything, that it needs more complexity and more modulation, but I purposely wanted to keep this like that, bleak, slow march like feel to the piece.

Some background.

This was originally one of my piano works, and I decided to orchestrate it, the orchestration was more of ornamentation, then an aspect of complexity.

Interesting how people can relate differently to a specific piece, some people who had heard it liked it very much and some didn't, well I guess not everyone is going to like it.

But I agree that of course this piece can be made better, there is always room for improvement and I deeply appreciate your comments and the fact that you listen to it.

I will post more works later on...

[Saul]

Prelude In E flat Major for Piano

Comments comments comments!!! Looking forward to hear them...

http://www.youtube.com/v/idbAo9OGNJc

[greg]

Okay, for that one, it sounded nice and interesting harmonically... but, the same thing here- you just have this repeated 16th note line that gets tedious, and the uninteresting melody doesn't really help.

I'd like to hear you write something that has very tasty harmonies like that, but with interesting (non-tedious) lines, and many of them (which interact with each other in an interesting way). 

[petrarch]

Prelude In E flat Major for Piano

Comments comments comments!!! Looking forward to hear them...

This one is slightly better, but it sounds more like an Etude than a Prelude. I wish the melody was repeated across more than one voice and that the left hand was more ornate (those heavy chords give the whole a sense of not going anywhere).

The harmonic progressions sound a bit weird and off-balance to me (for instance what goes on in the 2nd and 3rd bars), although the "consistency" there could be a factor of interest if there wasn't a constant stream of notes on the right hand.

[Saul]

Greg and Petrarch,

I would call this Prelude a Bachian Minimalistic and to use Greg's wording somewhat 'tedious' in a sense that's right. The melody might not be interesting when its alone, but the combination with the 16th notes and the rich modulation creates an interest imho.

Petrarch,

I do believe that this is a Prelude, I wouldn't call it very difficult to perform, and I didn't envision this to be a study for technique but just a musical work for the sake of music alone, but if anyone can get some technical benefits from performing it, then the more better.

The Harmonic progression  very much reflects the right hand notes, they work interestingly in an oblique mode, and they compliment each other.

Now if you want to hear an Etude, this is the one.

Etude in F sharp Minor 'The Wild River Etude'

Cheers!

http://www.youtube.com/v/R08Mxg4K97k

[petrarch]

I do believe that this is a Prelude, I wouldn't call it very difficult to perform, and I didn't envision this to be a study for technique

I didn't mean an Etude because it was difficult, it just sounded like the piece wanted to be one.

The Harmonic progression  very much reflects the right hand notes, they work interestingly in an oblique mode, and they compliment each other.

The thing I was talking about re progression is just the tonal references that sound accidental and undesirable and skew the ear in a direction different than what the music is going (e.g. the dominant sevenths or equivalents that don't go anywhere or the passing tritones).

I would like to see your analysis of the harmonic progression of the piece. Maybe I'm missing something, especially since you say it is minimalistic in the Bach sense.

[Saul]

I didn't mean an Etude because it was difficult, it just sounded like the piece wanted to be one.

The thing I was talking about re progression is just the tonal references that sound accidental and undesirable and skew the ear in a direction different than what the music is going (e.g. the dominant sevenths or equivalents that don't go anywhere or the passing tritones).

I would like to see your analysis of the harmonic progression of the piece. Maybe I'm missing something, especially since you say it is minimalistic in the Bach sense.

There was no formal harmonic progression here, but whatever sounded good to my ear and the next logical modulation, though perhaps not necessarily the correct one.

[Saul]

Etude In C major No.2 - Presto Brillante - Score Included. Written on 2004.

Regards,

Saul

http://www.youtube.com/v/JtB0d6A1Ppk

[Saul]

Caprice In A minor - Allegro Apassionato

http://www.youtube.com/v/CU1c7Bb0DP0

[greg]

I'm not going to comment on the Etude...   
however, the Caprice does have some interesting material- but mainly just in the right hand. What you need to do is make the left hand have more interesting material, instead of mainly just banging away at chords throughout.

I think Brahms' advice at trying to make every voice interesting applies here. When you have, for example,  the right hand ending a phrase and holding it as a whole note, and then you just have the left hand banging away at the same chord, that measure is going to be very dull. You have to make every measure interesting, even if it is hard.

If you took some of the good ideas (such as the sixteenth notes at 1:43 and the connection back to the main theme at 2:40) and just wrote with more of a focus on voices/creating interesting sounding lines (and their interactions) rather than repeating patterns, it would be much better. 

[Saul]

I'm not going to comment on the Etude...   
however, the Caprice does have some interesting material- but mainly just in the right hand. What you need to do is make the left hand have more interesting material, instead of mainly just banging away at chords throughout.

I think Brahms' advice at trying to make every voice interesting applies here. When you have, for example,  the right hand ending a phrase and holding it as a whole note, and then you just have the left hand banging away at the same chord, that measure is going to be very dull. You have to make every measure interesting, even if it is hard.

If you took some of the good ideas (such as the sixteenth notes at 1:43 and the connection back to the main theme at 2:40) and just wrote with more of a focus on voices/creating interesting sounding lines (and their interactions) rather than repeating patterns, it would be much better. 

I accept everything you said about the Caprice, in fact I expected you to point out those things, I was aware of them myself. This was like a study, and I intend to make it better. But I must say that it would be a very difficult task, cause I want to keep the piece classical, you got any ideas of how to keep the harmony very classical and strict and not wonder into a romantic Schuman or Chopin type of composition?

The harmony in here is somewhat similar to the first movement of Mendelssohn's first concerto for piano in  G.

Why don't you want to say anything about the Etude?

[greg]

I accept everything you said about the Caprice, in fact I expected you to point out those things, I was aware of them myself. This was like a study, and I intend to make it better. But I must say that it would be a very difficult task, cause I want to keep the piece classical, you got any ideas of how to keep the harmony very classical and strict and not wonder into a romantic Schuman or Chopin type of composition?

The harmony in here is somewhat similar to the first movement of Mendelssohn's first concerto for piano in  G.

You really shouldn't worry too much about trying to keep the piece a certain style- just let it be what it wants to be. If it ends up sounding classical, fine. If it ends up sounding romantic, fine. What matters most is that it sounds good.

I'm glad you understand what I'm talking about! I'd love to hear this piece reworked- not thematically, but as I said, more detailed and all. It's a pretty cool piece, but it just needs that extra interest in the details.

Why don't you want to say anything about the Etude?

Almost the whole thing is just one measure copied and pasted, just with different pitches... 

[greg]

Though I should add that if you are really, really, determined to make the piece more "classical"- sounding, you should just revisit and study in depth as much stuff from the classical time period as you can. Even if you've already done that, it might help to refresh your memory of the style before writing (even "classical" harmony can be pretty rich).