Mussorgsky

[Ugh]

Supposedly, in the last year of his life, he had advanced beyond music into pure sound, and had created an onomatopoetic (sp?) account of a storm on the Black Sea cost that never got written down.  I lose a LOT of sleep over that.

Hey, that's new and interesting information to me - where did you read this? Any other projects that suggest he was advancing "beyond music into pure sound"?

[jowcol]

It was some biography I read in high school-- which is longer ago than I would care to admit.  I wish I remembered which one.  My local library also had a collection of his letters that I refused to give back to the library for several months. 

[ChamberNut]

Is there a 'Big Box o' Mussorgsky'? 

[Opus106]

Is there a 'Big Box o' Mussorgsky'? 

Not likely. But you should ask Harry to let the BC people know that there is demand for one.

[PaulR]

I just watched Abbado's DVD of Khovanschina, and I must say, this is probably one of my favorite operas, at least musically speaking.  I am most likely in the minority here, but I enjoy it more than Boris Godunov.  I need to give Boris another spin or two.  I've enjoyed parts of BG, in fact a lot of parts, but as a whole, it hasn't quite clicked for me yet.  But for me, Khovanschina grabs me from the start, and the last scene makes a HUGE impact on me whenever I listen to it. (I often listen to it outside of listening/watching the whole opera).   

I really like the use of Shostakovich's orchestration for most of it, and then Stravinsky's final scene.  It is a scoring that I think works perfectly for the work, but I cannot say that in a definite way, I haven't heard Shostakovich's final scene, nor have I heard Rimsky's version of it.  Maybe when I listen to them, I would draw a different conclusion, but I really like how the scoring works in the DVD.

But I saw in this thread that Gergiev has a DVD of this piece out, so that's probably my next adventure into this work.  It would be interesting to compare the two DVDs. 

[jowcol]

I just watched Abbado's DVD of Khovanschina, and I must say, this is probably one of my favorite operas, at least musically speaking.  I am most likely in the minority here, but I enjoy it more than Boris Godunov.  I need to give Boris another spin or two.

You are not alone-- I also prefer Khovanschina-- particulaly the last three acts.

[bhodges]

I just watched Abbado's DVD of Khovanschina, and I must say, this is probably one of my favorite operas, at least musically speaking.  I am most likely in the minority here, but I enjoy it more than Boris Godunov.  I need to give Boris another spin or two.  I've enjoyed parts of BG, in fact a lot of parts, but as a whole, it hasn't quite clicked for me yet.  But for me, Khovanschina grabs me from the start, and the last scene makes a HUGE impact on me whenever I listen to it. (I often listen to it outside of listening/watching the whole opera).   

I really like the use of Shostakovich's orchestration for most of it, and then Stravinsky's final scene.  It is a scoring that I think works perfectly for the work, but I cannot say that in a definite way, I haven't heard Shostakovich's final scene, nor have I heard Rimsky's version of it.  Maybe when I listen to them, I would draw a different conclusion, but I really like how the scoring works in the DVD.

But I saw in this thread that Gergiev has a DVD of this piece out, so that's probably my next adventure into this work.  It would be interesting to compare the two DVDs.

I'm impressed with this opera, too, even though I've only seen it once, in 1985, in a new production at the Met.  I recall liking it enormously, and the staging of the final immolation scene was terrific: a towering silo-like structure slowly revolved to reveal the interior lined with rows of singers from top to bottom, as the smoke and fire around them begin to build.  (PS, had to look it up: the Met used the Shostakovich orchestration.)

--Bruce

[PaulR]

I'm impressed with this opera, too, even though I've only seen it once, in 1985, in a new production at the Met.  I recall liking it enormously, and the staging of the final immolation scene was terrific: a towering silo-like structure slowly revolved to reveal the interior lined with rows of singers from top to bottom, as the smoke and fire around them begin to build.  (PS, had to look it up: the Met used the Shostakovich orchestration.)

--Bruce

It was a similar ending in the Abbado DVD, except with no flames.  There was a lot of smoke engulfing the stage as the curtain went down and music faded away.  It was a very effective ending.

[Drasko]

But I saw in this thread that Gergiev has a DVD of this piece out, so that's probably my next adventure into this work.  It would be interesting to compare the two DVDs.

Just for info, Gergiev's Khovanshchina on Immortal DVD has no subtitles and audio/video quality isn't very impressive.

[False_Dmitry]

I really like the use of Shostakovich's orchestration for most of it, and then Stravinsky's final scene.  It is a scoring that I think works perfectly for the work, but I cannot say that in a definite way, I haven't heard Shostakovich's final scene, nor have I heard Rimsky's version of it.  Maybe when I listen to them, I would draw a different conclusion, but I really like how the scoring works in the DVD.

In fact the scoring isn't "Shostakovich's".  Shostakovich's critical edition of Khovanschina mostly reverted Rimsky's unwanted alterations and reorchestrations, and returned the opera to the orchestration Musorgsky had originally intended... as far as that could be determined from the sketches and original scorings.  (Musorgsky was famous for revising and rewriting his own work to reach a "better" version - sometimes there are conflicting versions of the same thing in the composer's own sketches and scorings).

This is an entirely different process to that which the young Shostakovich had undertaken on BORIS GODUNOV, where he rescored the piece extensively, adding a huge battery of additional percussion, 6 harps, and quite a lot more.  Of course some of this is pretty questionable, although it makes a fabulous noise when it's all under way .  But the triumph of DSCH's edition of BORIS is that he restores original Musorgsky material (cut to ribbons by Rimsky) and makes dramatic sense of the libretto (something which is definitely missing in the so-called "Original Musorgsky Version" edited by David Lloyd-Jones.  The result is an opera with nearly 40 minutes more material (all original Musorgsky!) and an entirely different story-line!  Marina Mnishek - who is cut from the "original Musorgsky version"! - emerges as the anti-heroine of the piece.  with the plot-essential scenes at the Polish Border restored in full, Rangoni seen as a more dangerous enemy than Shuisky (and the "evil counterpart" of Boris himself).  Finally the grasping power-maddened Marina marries the Pretender (my board namesake, False Dmitry).


HELIKON OPERA, Moscow, DSCH version of BORIS GODUNOV - Vassily Efimov as the Simpleton


HELIKON OPERA, Moscow, DSCH version of BORIS GODUNOV - Ksenia Vyaznikova as Marina, Andrei Vylegzhanin as Rangoni


It has to be remembered here that "BORIS GODUNOV" is not intended to "tell this historical story of the Time Of Troubles".  It's a setting of Pushkin's play BORIS GODUNOV, which is a psychological drama about the corrupting nature of power.  As such, Musorgsky - a member of an overtly nationalistic group, "The Mighty Handful" - was aiming at creating a Russian equivalent of Wagner's RING - a story about how the lust for power destroys everyone in its wake.  The Shostakovich edition of BORIS is undoubtedly the closest to the Pushkin play, and reshuffles all of Musorgsky's material to create a logical drama.  (The "new" plot which emerges is the story of how Catholicism nearly took root in Russia - a story which is completely missing from the "original Musorgsky version").

AFAIK there is not a recording of the Shostakovich version of BORIS GODUNOV (and in fact very few people even seem to know he ever made this version, which he was commissioned to write for MosFilm Studios).  HELIKON OPERA in Moscow performed the DSCH version in honour of the composer's anniversary two years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vskqexg6piM&feature=related
HELIKON OPERA, Moscow, DSCH version of BORIS GODUNOV - Coronation Scene, with extra percussion! Vadim Zaplechny as Shuisky, and Alexei Tikhomirov as Boris, producer Dmitry Bertmann, conductor Nikolai Chudovsky

[PaulR]

In fact the scoring isn't "Shostakovich's".  Shostakovich's critical edition of Khovanschina mostly reverted Rimsky's unwanted alterations and reorchestrations, and returned the opera to the orchestration Musorgsky had originally intended... as far as that could be determined from the sketches and original scorings.  (Musorgsky was famous for revising and rewriting his own work to reach a "better" version - sometimes there are conflicting versions of the same thing in the composer's own sketches and scorings).

I believe Mussorgsky only finished the vocal score, and maybe orchestrated one or two sections, but not all of it.  I come to believe this due to reading the linear notes, and Grove music online (oxford music now), I'm looking at the sources, and they have one thing in common, they all say that Rimsky-Korsakov undertook the (first) orchestration of the piece. 

I mean, I could be wrong, and been misreading the passages.

[False_Dmitry]

I mean, I could be wrong,

I'm afraid you are completely wrong.

[PaulR]

I'm afraid you are completely wrong.

from Groves music:

Musorgsky conceived the work in 1872 and began its composition the next year; it was left unfinished, and (except for two fragments) unorchestrated at his death in 1881. A vocal score transmitting Musorgsky's manuscripts as he left them was published in 1931, edited by Pavel Lamm.

[False_Dmitry]

Then I wonder how your dictionary explains

• the full orchestrated score of the opera submitted to the Imperial Theatre Commission in December 1869
• Rimsky-Korsakov's remarks (in The Chronicle of My Life in Music) that the advanced orchestration of the work non-plussed the Theatre Commission, who couldn't understand it
• the full orchestral score of the Revised Version, submitted by Musorgsky to the Imperial Theatres Commission in 1872 and still in the archives of the St Petersburg Conservatoire with this date stamped on it
• The performance of three scenes from the opera, to illustrate its merits, at the Mariinsky Theatre in St Petersburg on 5th February 1873, with orchestra and chorus, organised by Musorgsky's supporters to give the opera a public airing
• The premiere of the entire opera - with chorus and orchestra - on 27th January 1874. Musorgsky himself took 20 curtain-calls. The performance was conducted by the legendary Czech conductor and champion of Tchaikovsky's music, Eduard Napravnik. 17 further performances were given at the Mariinsky Theatre.
• The Moscow premiere at the Bolshoi Theatre on 16th December 1888

You need to learn the difference between works being PERFORMED, and being PUBLISHED.

[False_Dmitry]

they all say that Rimsky-Korsakov undertook the (first) orchestration of the piece. 

Utterly, utterly wrong.

[PaulR]

Then I wonder how your dictionary explains

   
• the full orchestrated score of the opera submitted to the Imperial Theatre Commission in December 1869
• Rimsky-Korsakov's remarks (in The Chronicle of My Life in Music) that the advanced orchestration of the work non-plussed the Theatre Commission, who couldn't understand it
• the full orchestral score of the Revised Version, submitted by Musorgsky to the Imperial Theatres Commission in 1872 and still in the archives of the St Petersburg Conservatoire with this date stamped on it
• The performance of three scenes from the opera, to illustrate its merits, at the Mariinsky Theatre in St Petersburg on 5th February 1873, with orchestra and chorus, organised by Musorgsky's supporters to give the opera a public airing
• The premiere of the entire opera - with chorus and orchestra - on 27th January 1874. Musorgsky himself took 20 curtain-calls. The performance was conducted by the legendary Czech conductor and champion of Tchaikovsky's music, Eduard Napravnik. 17 further performances were given at the Mariinsky Theatre.
• The Moscow premiere at the Bolshoi Theatre on 16th December 1888

You need to learn the difference between works being PERFORMED, and being PUBLISHED.

If you were to show me where you find this information, I'll retract my statements.  But everywhere I've seen these works, it never mentioned that Mussorgsky got around to orchestrating it, except for a few scenes and that Rimsky-Korsakov was the one who orchestrated it from the vocal score he left when he died.  It also mentions that the work wasn't even conceived until 1872, so that's quick composition of the opera.  Your time frame of that seems to fit more of the Boris Godunov opera, and the different revisions.  And to your final point, Mussorgsky died in 1881, 7 years before that premiere. 

I'm not stupid.  I know the difference between performed and published.  But please, show me where you found your information so I can examine it.

[False_Dmitry]

I'm not stupid.  I know the difference between performed and published.  But please, show me where you found your information so I can examine it.

I'm not wasting another moment on a fool like you. 

Or perhaps you think the orchestra all gathered around a vocal score and made up their own parts at the world premiere?  HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHahahahahahahahahahahah!

[False_Dmitry]

I'm not stupid.

Yes you are!!!

http://www.belcanto.ru/godunov.html

http://100oper.nm.ru/080.html

http://www.mussorgsky.ru/godunov.html

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Борис_Годунов_(опера)

http://www.google.com/search?q=%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F+%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F+%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%8B+%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81+%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2&hl=en&client=opera&hs=K6E&sa=X&rls=en&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=xTcmTKOZFMPqON7g8a8C&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=11&ved=0CGAQ5wIwCg

http://www.classic-music.ru/godunov.html

[PaulR]

I think this was one big....big....misunderstanding.  I never brought up Boris Godunov, except that I said I liked Khovanschina better than BG.  I responded to what I thought you were saying that Mussorgsky finished the orchestration of Khovanschina, which I was arguing, not whether or not he finished Boris Godunov (which I know he did, as I said, I'm not stupid)

[False_Dmitry]

I think this was one big....big....misunderstanding.  I never brought up Boris Godunov[/b

Agreed then, if we were always talking at crossed purposes!  And apologies.