playing mp3 / sound quality

[Henk]

I want to play mp3's from my laptop through my stereo, but the sound quality is bad. Is there a resolution for this? Maybe an external sound card? Or should I just play cd's if I want good sound quality?

Henk

[DavidRoss]

I want to play mp3's from my laptop through my stereo, but the sound quality is bad. Is there a resolution for this? Maybe an external sound card? Or should I just play cd's if I want good sound quality?

First, are the mp3 files you're using highly compressed?  If so, then the poor SQ (sound quality) is present at the source and better playback equipment will only reveal more of its deficiencies.  Most commercial mp3s (at least until recently...things are improving on some fronts) are compressed at 128kbps, which might be adequate for tin-eared kids listening to badly recorded electronic music with three instruments and a vocal, but is hardly adequate for complex orchestral music or even to capture all the subtleties and nuances of chamber music.  To insure quality source material, I rip my own mp3s from CD using the LAME codex at 320kbps, which results in files about a fifth the size of the CD file, but with SQ that's close enough to be indistinguishable from the CD on my mp3 playback devices.

Second, odds are that your notebook computer has a really crappy soundcard built in.  You could get a better soundcard that plugs in externally (last I knew Creative's Audigy pcmcia card was a good solution, doubtless there are better these days) or you can feed an external DAC (digital to analog converter) like HeadRoom's bithead.

[Henk]

First, are the mp3 files you're using highly compressed?  If so, then the poor SQ (sound quality) is present at the source and better playback equipment will only reveal more of its deficiencies.  Most commercial mp3s (at least until recently...things are improving on some fronts) are compressed at 128kbps, which might be adequate for tin-eared kids listening to badly recorded electronic music with three instruments and a vocal, but is hardly adequate for complex orchestral music or even to capture all the subtleties and nuances of chamber music.  To insure quality source material, I rip my own mp3s from CD using the LAME codex at 320kbps, which results in files about a fifth the size of the CD file, but with SQ that's close enough to be indistinguishable from the CD on my mp3 playback devices.

Second, odds are that your notebook computer has a really crappy soundcard built in.  You could get a better soundcard that plugs in externally (last I knew Creative's Audigy pcmcia card was a good solution, doubtless there are better these days) or you can feed an external DAC (digital to analog converter) like HeadRoom's bithead.

VBR at about 200 kbps (average). The same mp3 sounds much better on my mp3-player then on my computer. I'm already used to the SQ of my mp3-player (Cowon) so that's acceptable for me.

I'm interested in the bithead. Is it just for headphones or can you also use it for a stereo installation? Can I expect a better SQ then on a mp3-player?

Henk

[DavidRoss]

VBR at about 200 kbps (average). The same mp3 sounds much better on my mp3-player then on my computer. I'm already used to the SQ of my mp3-player (Cowon) so that's acceptable for me.

I'm interested in the bithead. Is it just for headphones or can you also use it for a stereo installation? Can I expect a better SQ then on a mp3-player?

The bithead is just a low cost DAC with headphone amp.  There are plenty of other options available for taking the signal from your computer and converting it for output to whatever amp you choose.  Musical Fidelity's V-DAC and Cambridge Audio's DAC Magic are well regarded values at budget prices.  Here's a link to pages of reviews: http://www.stereophile.com/digitalprocessors/ 

[Henk]

Thanks for the information, David!

One must be an expert to know about this all and to choose right. There seems not to be a simple, common solution for this. So people just accept the bad sound quality?

I will just play cd's and avoid mp3's.

Henk

[Renfield]

Henk, a well-regarded budget DAC that (at least some) people have deemed up to the task of providing reliable output to a regular speaker system is the tiny NuForce μDAC. Note that you'll find it spelled 'uDAC' a lot, but it's actually 'μ' for 'micro'.

And in effect, it provides a reasonably clean (still miles ahead of a laptop) analogue source for your digital audio.

I got mine, which I use with headphones, for ca. €100 from the European distributor, actually based in the Netherlands!


Edit:

Of course, the quality of the mp3 is a big issue, as David pointed out; but if you're satisfied with the encoding, a DAC can only improve things.

[DavidRoss]

One must be an expert to know about this all and to choose right. There seems not to be a simple, common solution for this. So people just accept the bad sound quality?

Nah, you don't need to be an expert, just use your ears and choose what you like that's in your price range.  Of course, in some ways we're spoiled for choice!  (See http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,16892.0.html )

I sure don't accept bad sound quality.  As I said, I rip my own CDs to mp3 using the LAME codec at 320kbps...a simple one-step operation with CDex. (Free download from SourceForge here: http://cdexos.sourceforge.net/?q=download )  The sound is surprisingly good played back through my iPod with Etymotic ER-6i buds.

If you want a digital server that saves some file space with no degradation of sound for playback through a high end hi fi system, you can rip CDs with a lossless codec like FLAC, or you can play back through your laptop with improved sound via the strategies already outlined.

I've never heard the nuforce Renfield suggested, but it has a good reputation for value. 

[Henk]

Henk, a well-regarded budget DAC that (at least some) people have deemed up to the task of providing reliable output to a regular speaker system is the tiny NuForce μDAC. Note that you'll find it spelled 'uDAC' a lot, but it's actually 'μ' for 'micro'.

And in effect, it provides a reasonably clean (still miles ahead of a laptop) analogue source for your digital audio.

I got mine, which I use with headphones, for ca. €100 from the European distributor, actually based in the Netherlands!


Edit:

Of course, the quality of the mp3 is a big issue, as David pointed out; but if you're satisfied with the encoding, a DAC can only improve things.

That probably is what I was looking for. Thanks!

Henk

[Henk]

Nah, you don't need to be an expert, just use your ears and choose what you like that's in your price range.  Of course, in some ways we're spoiled for choice!  (See http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,16892.0.html )

I sure don't accept bad sound quality.  As I said, I rip my own CDs to mp3 using the LAME codec at 320kbps...a simple one-step operation with CDex. (Free download from SourceForge here: http://cdexos.sourceforge.net/?q=download )  The sound is surprisingly good played back through my iPod with Etymotic ER-6i buds.

If you want a digital server that saves some file space with no degradation of sound for playback through a high end hi fi system, you can rip CDs with a lossless codec like FLAC, or you can play back through your laptop with improved sound via the strategies already outlined.

I've never heard the nuforce Renfield suggested, but it has a good reputation for value.

Do you also use a DAC?

Henk

[DavidRoss]

Do you also use a DAC?

Henk

Every system that converts digital bits to sound waves uses a DAC.  The ones built into cheap sound cards are not very good, but they do make "1 0 1 0" sound like "la la la la."  Improving the DAC is a simple way to improve the quality of digital sound.  One of the iPod's virtues was that it had a surprisingly good DAC built in. (Can't vouch for current models.)

I do use a separate DAC for my hi fi system, a bel canto DAC-2 which has since been superseded by the DAC-3.  I don't use my PC for any but casual listening and it's more than adequate for that.

[Henk]

Does a DAC like the NuForce μDAC also replace the sound card? I think it does, but want to be sure and hear from you.

thanks,
Henk

[Scarpia]

Does a DAC like the NuForce μDAC also replace the sound card? I think it does, but want to be sure and hear from you.

The NuForce connects to the PC through the USB port.  It is essentially an external sound card.  When you use it, any other soundcard in your system is  bypassed.

[drogulus]

     DACs are irrelevant. The analog sound is damaged, picking up noise from the computer's own components. Get a USB sound card. Don't pay any attention to the DAC, just get the features you want and don't pay too much.

     My GFs Acer laptop has good sound. It must be well shielded. I don't know what DAC it has, and no need to know. My HP desktop has terrible sound, and it has a good DAC in it, which is wasted if you don't protect it from the hostile environment it operates in. I use the S/PDIF, which works well.

     Given that < $100 DACs have been proven to be sonically transparent (IOW,
easily pass a straight wire bypass test) how could anything sound better? - Arny Kreuger

     Maybe these expensive DACs are spiritually better.

[petrarch]

     Given that < $100 DACs have been proven to be sonically transparent (IOW,
easily pass a straight wire bypass test) how could anything sound better? - Arny Kreuger

     Maybe these expensive DACs are spiritually better.

I'd like to get a definition of "proven". It's mostly about the clock and isolating the converters from the PSU. A high-end CD player like mine can be made to sound a lot better with an external clock like the Esoteric G-0Rb just due to the immensely improved precision of the oscillator core. But I would perhaps upgrade to the Esoteric P-03/D-03 combo before getting the external clock.

[Scarpia]

I'd like to get a definition of "proven". It's mostly about the clock and isolating the converters from the PSU. A high-end CD player like mine can be made to sound a lot better with an external clock like the Esoteric G-0Rb just due to the immensely improved precision of the oscillator core. But I would perhaps upgrade to the Esoteric P-03/D-03 combo before getting the external clock.

Then why don't the people who make the CD player put a good clock into it?

[Renfield]

Let me just clarify for Henk, concerning the above, that a USB DAC, being essentially an external sound card dedicated to analog output, involves a complete bypass of the system's own components; so one's only worry is the DAC's own 'noise'.

More expensive DACs are thus likely to be less 'noisy', similar to conventional higher-tier analogue audio sources, like a CD player.

[Scarpia]

Let me just clarify for Henk, concerning the above, that a USB DAC, being essentially an external sound card dedicated to analog output, involves a complete bypass of the system's own components; so one's only worry is the DAC's own 'noise'.

And, in many cases it is not a subtle effect.  I have a computer which boasts a high-end internal DAC.  But when I listen to it there are obvious noises associated with the disc drive, video card, etc.   A circuit sitting in a computer enclosure and connected to the same power supply as highly active components like disk drives has no chance of sounding good.  There is no reason an external DAC can't be as good as a CD drive.

[petrarch]

Then why don't the people who make the CD player put a good clock into it?

Price.

[DavidRoss]

Does a DAC like the NuForce μDAC also replace the sound card? I think it does, but want to be sure and hear from you.

Hi, Henk.  As Scarpia said, the NuForce μDAC bypasses your computer's built-in sound and feeds either your headphones or the amp that powers your loudspeakers.   Here's the manufacturer's product page:  http://www.nuforce.com/hp/products/iconudac/ .  And here's a thread about it from the Head Fi forums: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/456945/first-impressions-nuforce-udac-usb-dac-amp-with-line-out-and-s-pdif-out .

[RJR]

To Henk,
Process your mp3 files with the Sonnox Oxford Dynamics Native plugin. It's a VST plugin that you can embed into your audio editor. I have Adobe Audition 1.5.
If you have Wavelab 5.0b it's even better because it contains a batch processing program that will take care of everything while you do something else.

Here is a link:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:0ridlDGCrVsJ:www.audiomidi.com/Oxford-Dynamics-

$310 dollars! Ouch! Too expensive? But worth it just the same, in my opinion. I reprocessed all my cd, wave and mp3 files with it and the results are astonishing.
I experimented with many different settings for weeks before I arrived at a combination that gave what I thought were the ultimum results:
Click at the top where it says Load and then click on the Sony Buss.
The parameters will change from the default setting.
Check that the access button to the left of Compress is on and Compress is In.
Drop down to the bottom where it says Warmth and make sure that the Warmth is also In. Leave its Access button off.
If you wish to Dither, go right ahead. I don't any more.
That's it. Every other setting is a Sony Buss default setting and should be left just as they are when you Load Sony Buss.
Apply the changes to your file, or files. Voilà! Expansive, spatial sound with no clipping and no distortion.
Check local audio shops for better prices. I did.
I could send you a sample of an ordinary mp3 and a Sony Buss remake, if you like. Tell me how I can upload it and I will do so.