What were you listening to? (CLOSED)

[rubio]

Zoltan Kocsis

plays Bartok

CD7 (Philips)

This disc includes Burlesques, Sketches, Hungarian Peasant Songs and Easy Piano Pieces. So far it is one of the discs of the set I like the most.

[Que]

'54 for the 3rd, '48 for the 4th. I'd much rather hear a '43 4th, as I think it's a work that would really suit the wartime Furtwangler style.

Well, I agree with you completely. The '54 3rd is very fine, though I feel the 3rd was never really Furtwängler's strongest Brahms symphony. And the '48 4th is indeed not that impressive, and your hunch on the '43 4th is spot on: devastating and FW's best Brahms ever IMO.

Q

[rubio]

Bruckner #5 : Blomstedt / Oslo PO in a concert recording from last September.

I'm surprised - and gratified - to be able to say how much I am enjoying this.

Though I'm an enthusiast for HB's early work with the Staatskapelle Dresden and the Swedish RSO, I haven't liked much of his more recent work.  I observe - silently, but sadly - the regularity with which his SFSO set of Nielsen symphonies is trawled across that particular thread - when so many superior alternatives can easily be found.

But this is really very good.  Tempos are spot on - but not slavishly so.  Weighted just right. 

It's remarkable how many good Bruckner recordings with the Oslo PO I've made off-air, yet the only commercial CD of theirs I have is that regrettable Talmi #9.  I wish someone would record them properly.

I attended that Bruckner 5 concert in Oslo last September, and it was indeed very good! 

Which Nielsen set would you highly recommend?

[beclemund]

I admit, I am a novice in terms of my understanding of music, so in evaluating this review, it would be well to keep that in mind. I honestly "know nothin' 'bout nothin'" when it comes to music. I can only judge on how a particular piece sounds to me. I have not read music since junior high band, and I am well removed from that time in my life...

On the basis of Sarge's challenge earlier, I skipped right past 4-7s (rest assured, I will get back to them in due time) and have been held captive by Celi's 8th. I have listened to it straight through for the last two days many times now (although one might argue that it is so broad (104+ minutes) that it could take several days to listen through just once). Even after repeated listening, I do not feel I have made much progress in understanding all of Celi's ideas.

I think it is helpful, however, to have some notion of Celibidache's preconceptions with regard to music particularly in terms of his focus on exploring individual sounds and his distrust of recorded media on conveying the reality of a performance (this collection was released posthumously). What may have made sense in a live performance--Celi's interest in exploring individual sounds including (but not limited to) the way those sounds interacted from one instrument to the next and then with the venue--makes for sometimes surprising (and often confusing ) results on a recording. Long drawn out pauses between bars, notes held nearly suspended in time, and other idiosyncrasies make for an unusual, amazing and boggling performance... until you are familiar with the composer's philosophy (do read the liner notes).

One of Celi's concerns about recorded music (as described in the liner notes by his son) was that the surprise and amazement of a live performance is lost after the first listen. What is also true, is that the disdain for a particular reading can be vanquished over repeated listens as well. I admit that my first run through this 8th was motivated by Sarge's comments upon my listening to his 3rd from the same set, so I made a hasty jump to listen to the 8th right away. I was disappointed quite a bit through that first run. I could understand the criticisms by others about how tedious this venture could be. So after listening, I sat down with the liner notes and felt that I had a better understanding of the whys for the extraordinarily broad tempos (my favorite 8th is Giulini's '84 VPO and I was sure it could not get more expansive than that). Upon subsequent listens, I threw out my own preconceptions and as I listened, I thought about how the listeners at the venue might have felt... hanging expectantly on every note and waiting to see how each new part would unfold as wave after wave of glorious sound washed over you. Along with Celibidache, you have an entire orchestra committed to his ideas and you have a venue filled with listeners all engaged as this vast symphony unfolded before them with even the minutest detail available. And while I still agree that at times, it is indeed, tedious, it is never dull.

In the notes, the authors mention an idea that Celibidache held regarding "depersonalization"... basically removing the self from the equation of interpreting a work and explore the composers without individual influences. I think that is very misleading as this is very much a personal reading. This is every bit an individual interpretation of this work and it is probably one of the reasons why there is some controversy over whether it is a valid interpretation. I think there is room for individuality and it is why many of us fill our personal libraries with a bevy of conductors exploring their way through our favorite compositions.

Reviewing this work based on my exposure to it is contrary to Celi's opposition to recorded media. The interpretation, involved the atmosphere of the environment not just the musical notes. And while I am sure this transfer does all it can to transport the listener to the live performance, there is no way to translate the energy of the audience and the conductor's rapport with his listeners in motivating his decisions. It is, however, all I have to go by. While I cannot say that this is now my favorite 8th, I can say I am happy for the experience and I will likely revisit this work many times.

I am sure, I have rambled on much more than anyone should want, so if you have actually managed to wind your way through my account, thank you for humoring me.

[Choo Choo]

I attended that Bruckner 5 concert in Oslo last September, and it was indeed very good! 

It's such a shame they don't release these recordings on CD, even on their own label like e.g. the LSO do.  Or as downloads, like the Philadelphia.  They really are top class.

Which Nielsen set would you highly recommend?

I withdraw that remark about "superior alternatives."  True, I find less in those SFSO recordings than some others, but this is probably a matter of taste rather than competence.  Plenty of people do find value in them (apparently.)

[bhodges]

I am sure, I have rambled on much more than anyone should want, so if you have actually managed to wind your way through my account, thank you for humoring me.

I enjoyed it!  And I think it's fascinating that you began to explore Celibidache so early in your listening, since conventional wisdom (or what I've read) says that his interpretations are "not for beginners."  To my ears he just requires a bit more patience, which for some people is in short supply.  And people's perceptions of "slow" and whether "slow" works in a given work vary so widely...  A favorite recent example was Levine doing the Mahler Ninth a couple of years ago with the Met Orchestra, and I just found it too slow -- the tension snapped.  But I'm sure others in the audience found the pace completely transporting.

Anyway, back to the Bruckner, and thanks for those comments, which are making me really want to hear this piece live.  It's been awhile.

--Bruce

[rubio]

I finished this box I borrowed from the library with CD8. I like bits and pieces of Bartok's piano music, but not enough to justify an investment. If I would like to hear it again I go visit the library.

[Daverz]

Listened a bit to some of the "Introuvables" box sets I bought from amazon.fr, the Brahms Cello Sonatas with Tortelier /Engels (excellent), and a bunch of Vivaldi concertos with Milstein (ugh, too much Vivaldi at once, and rather indifferent orchestral contribution,  but Milstein's playing is always classy.)

Also got a bunch of Bloch CDs from Laurel Records (they have a 5 for 4 deal, which brings the cost down a bit).  I think their recording of  the Piano Quintet No. 1 is going to become my preferred recording.  The coupling is a new recording of the String Quartet No. 5.  Oddly, the recording of the latter seems to be mono, though spacious and well-balanced mono.  No matter, it's an excellent performance of a neglected work.

[Haffner]

Wagner Ring Des Nibelungen (Levine/Jerusalem/Norman)


Second Dvd

James Morris is especially excellent here.

[Valentino]

Sommer from Haydn's Die Jahreseiten. Jacobs on HM. Most excellent, and uplifting since the afternoon has been the greyest of grey, windless and rainy.

[sidoze]

[Que]

See the Legendary Historical Singers thread.

Q

[Drasko]

You quick.

[Solitary Wanderer]

[not edward]

Packed with Charlietastic goodness.

[Drasko]

Earlier this evening, Belgrade Philharmonic last concert of the season


Barber - Medea's Meditation & Dance of Vengeance
Verdi - Otello: Credo
******
Verdi - Rigoletto: Corteggiani
Rota - The Godfather Suite
Mozart - Nozze di Figaro: Hai gia vinta la causa....(Count Almaviva's Aria)
R.Strauss - Till Eulenspiegel

Roger Smeets, baritone
Belgrade Philharmonic
Dorian Wilson (MD)

[rubio]

The cover CD of the BBC Music Magazine. It's a nice way to meet new pieces. I find Brahms Piano Quintet just splendid, and I wonder if you have any suggestions for a high-quality performance of this piece? The Dvorak Piano Quartet is also very nice. These are live performances and they sound good to me.

[Sergeant Rock]

Packed with Charlietastic goodness.

Many a good man have tried, even Lenny himself, but that first Ives Second is still the one to beat...

Sarge

[FideLeo]

Mozart's "toccatas for four hands" played on a most unique instrument (a combo-harpsicord and fortepiano by Andreas Stein) and in a glee and mirthful way by two leading fortepiano/harpsichord virtuosi of our day.

[not edward]

Dvorak 5 (LSO/Kertesz). Maybe I'm in an unsympathetic mood, but I find this symphony rather ordinary compared with those that were to follow.