Pianists and Rubato

[George]

I just enjoyed Moiseiwitsch's 1930 Kinderszenen on Naxos Historical, in which he uses a lot of rubato and does so beautifully. I am now wondering what other performances by this pianist and others are played with a lot of rubato? I know that this practice has become less and less common over the years and I'd like to hear many more recordings played in this style. Please recommend as many as you can think of.

[mc ukrneal]

I just enjoyed Moiseiwitsch's 1930 Kinderszenen on Naxos Historical, in which he uses a lot of rubato and does so beautifully. I am now wondering what other performances by this pianist and others are played with a lot of rubato? I know that this practice has become less and less common over the years and I'd like to hear many more recordings played in this style. Please recommend as many as you can think of.

One of the Barenboim masterclasses on DVD (and on youtube) touches upon the issue of rubato and it is one of the more interesting discussions of Beethoven in that series.  Perhaps someone else can remember where the segment was (and with which pianist), but you would probably enjoy it.

[Philoctetes]

One of the Barenboim masterclasses on DVD (and on youtube) touches upon the issue of rubato and it is one of the more interesting discussions of Beethoven in that series.  Perhaps someone else can remember where the segment was (and with which pianist), but you would probably enjoy it.

I think it was in this section:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFKjTJ566c4

[Philoctetes]

Sorry, this is the link about rubato:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B37vc8rRz8I&feature=related

[Mandryka]

I just enjoyed Moiseiwitsch's 1930 Kinderszenen on Naxos Historical, in which he uses a lot of rubato and does so beautifully. I am now wondering what other performances by this pianist and others are played with a lot of rubato? I know that this practice has become less and less common over the years and I'd like to hear many more recordings played in this style. Please recommend as many as you can think of.

Arrau's rubato is pretty strange and I know it puts a lot of people off. Very effective though sometimes in e.g. the first movement of Brahms PC 1 with Guilini


Another one which comes to mind is Cortot/Mengellberg in Chopin PC 2

Vedernikov's BAch -- the sarabande of   the 5th partita.

Apart from that the only things which I can think of as really special aren't what you want -- Segovia in Albeniz's Leylandas; Kebow and Bezuidenhout in Schoene Mullerin (very good that -- I only just bought it) ; the Leipzigers in the Op 18s (maybe -- need to check that one!)

[George]

Arrau's rubato is pretty strange and I know it puts a lot of people off. Very effective though sometimes in e.g. the first movement of Brahms PC 1 with Guilini

I love Arrau's rubato, especially in the Chopin Nocturnes.

Another one which comes to mind is Cortot/Mengellberg in Chopin PC 2

Vedernikov's BAch -- the sarabande of   the 5th partita.

Apart from that the only things which I can think of as really special aren't what you want -- Segovia in Albeniz's Leylandas; Kebow and Bezuidenhout in Schoene Mullerin (very good that -- I only just bought it) ; the Leipzigers in the Op 18s (maybe -- need to check that one!)

Thanks, I'll look out for those.

[Scarpia]

For uber-rubato there is Schnabel's Mozart PC27 with Barbirolli, although more properly it is extreme tempo fluctuation.  (The 30's, I think.)

[Holden]

I love Arrau's rubato, especially in the Chopin Nocturnes.

And it's his rubato in these works that puts me off his performances. Barenboim metioned stealing time and then giving it back again. For me Arrau does the theft but he's no Robin Hood and I get an uncomfortable feeling when he falls behind the metronome.

[George]

And it's his rubato in these works that puts me off his performances. Barenboim metioned stealing time and then giving it back again. For me Arrau does the theft but he's no Robin Hood and I get an uncomfortable feeling when he falls behind the metronome.

OK, do you have examples you can share of rubato that works for you?

[MN Dave]

Domo Arigato, Mr. Rubato

[Mandryka]

For uber-rubato there is Schnabel's Mozart PC27 with Barbirolli.  (The 30's, I think.)

That's one of my favourite recordings of anything by anyone.

[Josquin des Prez]

I liked Arrau better in his younger days. His rubato felt better too.

[George]

That's one of my favourite recordings of anything by anyone.

I have that one. I'll give a spin soon.

[Holden]

OK, do you have examples you can share of rubato that works for you?

For me, the most natural sounding rubato in Chopin comes from Rubinstein. He might briefly pause at  the beginning of a phrase but has caught up at the end and it seems effortless. In other phrases he goes a bit quicker at the start and then slows down to let the music catch up. He just seems to know whether to go faster or slower at the beginning of a phrase. Underpinning it all is a very secure left hand that never lets go of the tempo. We are naturally attuned to tempo so if it doesn't sound right then we know it. A great example (there are many) of Rubinstein's effortless rubato is the stereo recording of the Chopin Nocturne Op 9 no 1.

Now I said that it sounds effortless but it takes a superb musical technique to be able to do this. I can certainly play this Nocturne note for note without really breaking into a sweat but there is no way I can voice it like Rubinstein.

The rubato that sounds unnatural to me is where the tempo is compromised and this is what makes me feel edgy about Arrau's Nocturnes. As a musician I sense the tempo of the pieces being twisted and turned in ways that don't seem to match up with what I feel should be happening.

Another example of this unnatural (to me) use of rubato is the Pires recording of the Schubert Impromptus. When it came out I should have been forewarned by the DGG hype. Subtitling the CD "Le Voyage Magnifique" is just so passe but I went ahead and listened anyway. After all it had been feted by the critics! Pires just couldn't let the music flow at all, she just had to interpose herself into the music listener equation by trying to wring every last ounce of emotion out of the music by an exaggerated use of rubato. A pianist I had held in high esteem fell to earth with a great thud and I have never really sought her out since.

My final thought on rubato is that if it immediately comes to my attention in a performance as a major factor then something is wrong.

A final example of great use of rubato is in this Youtube video by the supposedly cold and clinical Michelangeli. It is one of the greatest performances of Chopin work I have ever heard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKWkCKdDGVs

But this might be the best ever recording of a Chopin work. The way the tension is held throughout the work is all down to the exceptionally clever use of rubato yet the tempo never falters and the work moves inexorably onwards despite the very slow tempo chosen by the pianist. You might be surprised by who he is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEtujQWWfU0

[George]

Thanks for your informative response, Holden.

Is that Michelangeli recording available on CD?

[Mandryka]

I find it quite hard to hear rubato. I've got zero sense of rhythm I suppose: I'm not a musician and I'm the worst dancer in the world.

But listening today to Elissio Virssaldze's Schubert sonata, I was wondering whether it's rubato which gives her such a distinctive voice. I reckon she sounds like no one else.

That Schubert CD is really growing on me.

[George]

I find it quite hard to hear rubato.

I usually don't notice it either, but that first scene from childhood that I mentioned in my OP is fairly obvious. Have you heard that one?

[ccar]

Is that Michelangeli recording available on CD?

Torino 1962.
http://www.amazon.com/All-Chopin-Recital-Turin-1962/dp/B000001OHE/ref=sr_1_46?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1286566689&sr=1-46

[ccar]

http://www.youtube.com/v/lAMATR5Q3nk

[mc ukrneal]

Here is a disc that has a lot of rubato and you get plenty of opportunities to listen for it. You may not want to listen to all the waltzes at once, but I find them a joy (disc appears to be oop, but there may be copies floating around or maybe somewhere a download). In case you can't read the picture: Schubert waltzes performed by Paolo Bordoni.