What's the point of listening to so much music?

[Saul]

Oh, no I don't ascribe to that. Some are certainly better than others and as MI said, many performances are uninspired. Brushing aside the element of imaginative interpretation throws out baby and bathwater.

Mike

When you say that some interpretations are not inspiring, I will say that this has to do with personal taste, because some people cant stand Horowitz, and some people Love Lang Lang. The whole idea of 'Better Interpretations' is like 'who's your favorite composer'?

Its all a matter of taste, and personal choice, but not really any definitive universal artistic stamp.

[Mirror Image]

Every performance of a particular composition by a talented virtuoso or by a talented conductor and Orchestra are basically the same, the differences that some people find is nothing more then a strong spark of imagination insisting that one is better then the other, and as Knight said before, there is no telling which is really better, just like you said that one can't know for sure how the composer himself played it or wanted to be played right now.

So what's this whole business of comparing?
What are you comparing, things that don't have a place in the truth or in reality?

As a listener, I base my listening on emotional content. Some conductors bring out certain aspects of a composition that I like better than others while other conductors may excel in the more introspective aspect of the work.

As I said, if you think every performance you hear of say Mendelssohn's Scottish Symphony is great, then you're not listening hard enough. Can you not tell the difference between an inspired performance and an uninspired performance or do they all sound the same to you?

[Saul]

What has that to do with the argument? We only know what is on the page as released by musicians, we don't know what they heard inside their heads.

Mike

I kinda lost you here, I believe you were the one who made a distinction between solo and Orchestra, for me its all the same.

[Mirror Image]

When you say that some interpretations are not inspiring, I will say that this has to do with personal taste, because some people cant stand Horowitz, and some people Love Lang Lang. The whole idea of 'Better Interpretations' is like 'who's your favorite composer'?

Its all a matter of taste, and personal choice, but not really any definitive universal artistic stamp.

Ladies and gentlemen allow me to introduce to you Saul the Brick Wall:

[Saul]

As a listener, I base my listening on emotional content. Some conductors bring out certain aspects of a composition that I like better than others while other conductors may excel in the more introspective aspect of the work.

As I said, if you think every performance you hear of say Mendelssohn's Scottish Symphony is great, then you're not listening hard enough. Can you not tell the difference between an inspired performance and an uninspired performance or do they all sound the same to you?

Thank you !

"That you like better' you said it...

But who said that what you liked has to do with art.
Tell me what art has to do with comparing performances.

Its nothing, in my opinion, its nothing more then a huge hype designed to create money, and composers today are paying a huge price for that.

[Mirror Image]

Thank you !

"That you like better' you said it...

But who said that what you liked has to do with art.
Tell me what art has to do with comparing performances.

Its nothing, in my opinion, its nothing more then a huge hype designed to create money, and composers today are paying a huge price for that.

Can you even answer my question? I asked you can you tell the difference between an inspired performance and an uninspired performance?

[Bulldog]

Another trouble maker in our midst...
Please focus on the subject can you train yourself to do that?

I don't consider your subject worthy of any focus.  I do find it interesting that you keep hammering away with the same argument said the same way, much more repetitive than multiple versions of the same work.

[Mirror Image]

I don't consider your subject worthy of any focus.  I do find it interesting that you keep hammering away with the same argument said the same way, much more repetitive than multiple versions of the same work.

He can't even answer simple questions either.

[Cato]

He can't even answer simple questions either.

Quite true!   

The U.S. Marines have a slogan: "Can't Means Won't!"


"Can't" or "Won't"...I am...STILL...waiting...waiting...waiting!!!   0:)

[Mirror Image]

Quite true!   

The U.S. Marines have a slogan: "Can't Means Won't!"


"Can't" or "Won't"...I am...STILL...waiting...waiting...waiting!!!   0:)

All I asked the guy was could he tell an inspired performance apart from an uninspired performance and, yes, like you, I am still waiting for an answer.

[jochanaan]

When you say that some interpretations are not inspiring, I will say that this has to do with personal taste, because some people cant stand Horowitz, and some people Love Lang Lang. The whole idea of 'Better Interpretations' is like 'who's your favorite composer'?

Its all a matter of taste, and personal choice, but not really any definitive universal artistic stamp.

I cannot agree.  There are certain objective measurements by which we can measure performance quality.  There is note-accuracy--and this is something we can never take for granted; I've heard a broadcast or two of Lang Lang that was actually rather distressing in its inaccuracy!--there is following (or not) the composer's directions re tempo, nuance and dynamics; there is gracefulness; there is tone quality; there is intensity... Granted, some of these indicators are hard to measure, but they're not hard to feel, and listeners know when they're absent or weak.

[Mirror Image]

I cannot agree.  There are certain objective measurements by which we can measure performance quality.  There is note-accuracy--and this is something we can never take for granted; I've heard a broadcast or two of Lang Lang that was actually rather distressing in its inaccuracy!--there is following (or not) the composer's directions re tempo, nuance and dynamics; there is gracefulness; there is tone quality; there is intensity... Granted, some of these indicators are hard to measure, but they're not hard to feel, and listeners know when they're absent or weak.

Absolutely agree with this and very well stated. A musical performance, for me, is about the overall feel. An experienced listener can pick up on what they feel to be well-played or severely lacking. I know I can.

[greg]

I don't think people set out to compare differences between recordings, but usually just want to hear a piece being played different ways, and in that way, there's lots to explore.

Some things I have trouble telling apart. For Mahler's 1st, I don't think I can tell apart most recordings. It mainly sounds the same to me. For the 6th and 9th symphonies, however, I have absolutely clear choices about which one is my favorite. When I discovered a certain recording for the 6th, I enjoyed the piece like I never had before- in other words, if you find a recording you really like, it can help you appreciate the composer and his music better.

btw... please, Saul... be more careful when you type. Reading those run-on sentences and misplaced commas are almost painful. 

[Mirror Image]

I don't think people set out to compare differences between recordings, but usually just want to hear a piece being played different ways, and in that way, there's lots to explore.

Some things I have trouble telling apart. For Mahler's 1st, I don't think I can tell apart most recordings. It mainly sounds the same to me. For the 6th and 9th symphonies, however, I have absolutely clear choices about which one is my favorite. When I discovered a certain recording for the 6th, I enjoyed the piece like I never had before- in other words, if you find a recording you really like, it can help you appreciate the composer and his music better.

btw... please, Saul... be more careful when you type. Reading those run-on sentences and misplaced commas are almost painful. 

I think Mahler has been interpreted in so many different ways that it is now hard to find a conductor who brings something truly original of their own to the music. I tend to like very accurate, almost transparent readings of Mahler a la Abbado, Chailly, Boulez, Rattle, Gielen, and Bertini. I'm not much for bombast in Mahler and he's definitely a composer that one can overkill in a heartbeat.

I agree though about hearing different performances of the same work and you pretty said the point I've been trying to make all along: finding new avenues into the music we love gives the listener a new appreciation for not only the composer, but the music itself.

[Chaszz]

I can agree to a certain extent with the arguments of both sides here. But Saul makes a good point when he says the record companies are perhaps concentrating on the 2,134th release of the Emperor rather than seeking out something new and worthwhile. Perhaps if continual reinterpretation of the old was not so big a part of our musical culture then the thousands of instrumentalists who compete for a limited number of star positions and chairs in major orchestras would be more stimulated instead to...compose? As they did in the old days? And we might have more of a living culture in classical music? Just a thought. Remember that during the ages we idolize the idea of not having a continual flood of new music was totally unacceptable and drove the production of all the works we love. E.g., when Bach assumed his Leipzig job his first task was to compose an entirely new yearly cycle of cantatas; the notion of using the old ones was simply not even thought of.

[karlhenning]

I can agree to a certain extent with the arguments of both sides here. But Saul makes a good point when he says the record companies are perhaps concentrating on the 2,134th release of the Emperor  . . . .

Well, that's a point which has been made here often by others, and generally better than has been done on this thread. It's a point which can be made without whingeing about those of us who do enjoy listening to more recordings of a piece than just the first one we happened to hear.

[Catison]

What's the point of living so much life?

[Florestan]

I cannot agree.  There are certain objective measurements by which we can measure performance quality.  There is note-accuracy--and this is something we can never take for granted; I've heard a broadcast or two of Lang Lang that was actually rather distressing in its inaccuracy!--

I wonder what would we say if we heard Liszt or Chopin performing their own music... I can already hear some complaining about their inaccuracy, or romantic self-indulgence. As for Beethoven conducting his own symphonies, let's not open another can of worms...

[karlhenning]

Goodness knows that Henning cat's performances of his own music are riddled with inaccuracirs.

[Saul]

I wonder what would we say if we heard Liszt or Chopin performing their own music... I can already hear some complaining about their inaccuracy, or romantic self-indulgence. As for Beethoven conducting his own symphonies, let's not open another can of worms...

I'm surprised that no one hear picked up on this stunning point by Florestan.