Ten English Composers

[Octo_Russ]

Inspired by the Ravel / Rachmaninov / Grieg / R. Strauss poll, i felt a poll / discussion about the best English Composers wouldn't go amiss, i've purposely missed out the main four - Vaughan Williams, Britten, Elgar, and Walton, as i think they would easily run away with the vote, and concentrating on the second tier of English Composers, and of course leaving out those older English Baroque Composers, mainly concentrating on English Composers between the two world wars.

So who is your favourite?, which works and why?

Mine would be Bax, for his Symphonic / Orchestral output, especially the Third Symphony, and Ireland, mainly for his many inventive Piano Miniatures, what an unassuming Composer he is.

[petrarch]

English or British?

Where's Ferneyhough, Harvey, Dillon (he's scottish, though), Finnissy, Maxwell-Davies?...

[Mirror Image]

I chose Delius and Rubbra, but I could have easily picked Bax and Alwyn. It was a tough decision for me.

[Luke]

English or British?

Where's Ferneyhough, Harvey, Dillon (he's scottish, though), Finnissy, Maxwell-Davies?...

Well, he did say mostly interwar, so I got what he meant...wish he'd put Brian as an option, though, because he would be my first choice. Howells is another missing name I'd have liked to vote for. but I suppose this made my choice easier. So I went for Finzi and the much-ignored or underestimated Ireland, as close to a British Ravel as there is, not in terms of a similarity in soundworld but in the sense that he, too, has a small, superbly-executed oeuvre constructed out of a very personal and immediately identifiable musical language - those harmonies and musical figures that belong to Ireland alone! (Just as is the case with Ravel...) 

As far as the others go, Delius and Holst really ought to be on the excluded-as-first-rank list, IMO, even though Delius is given a hard time round here - he's a more interesting and original composer than many round here give him credit for, even though he's not a favourite of mine at all, and that originality makes him stand out from the crowd; Holst, too, is such an impressive figure for the strangeness and originality of his sound...but the quality of it is so variable, and again, it's never appealed to me much personally, outside things like Egdon Heath. Bax, who has never appealed to me much either, will get big votes from the symphonies-are-everything crowd, as will Rubbra (who I prefer and who I think deserves them).

[The new erato]

I went for Rubbra (which was the one choice I were in no doubt about) and Bax. I suppose I woulld have gone for Arnold third, though there are a couple of choices (Finzi, Holst) I in all honesty don't know well.

As for Rubbra, the symphonies, the wonderful string quartets on Dutton, the fine Masses on Chandos, the violin concertoes on Naxos and viola concerto on Hyperion easily puts him in a class of his own in this company. 

[springrite]

Alwyn and Rubbra.

Alwyn for the symphonies, violin concerto and harp concerto (Angelica). Rubbra for the symphonies (especially 3 and 7) and Viola Concerto.


I could have also chosen Bax. Simpson not one of the options, or he would have gotten my vote as well.

[val]

My choice:

- Bax, because of Tintagel and November Woods.

- Delius, because of the sublime Sea Drift.

[Octo_Russ]

Yeah i knew that some people would come up with some names of Composers not on the list, i stuck to ten Composers, and ones that just didn't quite make it were Howells, Moeran and Parry, and i knew someone would mention Brian too!.

So I went for Finzi and the much-ignored or underestimated Ireland, as close to a British Ravel as there is, not in terms of a similarity in soundworld but in the sense that he, too, has a small, superbly-executed oeuvre constructed out of a very personal and immediately identifiable musical language - those harmonies and musical figures that belong to Ireland alone! (Just as is the case with Ravel...)

Glad you liked Ireland, i feel he has been unjustly neglected, his Orchestral output is not great, and he didn't have a load of Symphonies to speak of, but his Piano works brings great discoveries, mainly concentrating on smaller tone poem type pieces, and of course his Clarinet Fantasy is second to none.

[Dax]

Wot? No York Bowen?

[Luke]

Yeah i knew that some people would come up with some names of Composers not on the list, i stuck to ten Composers, and ones that just didn't quite make it were Howells, Moeran and Parry, and i knew someone would mention Brian too!.

Glad you liked Ireland, i feel he has been unjustly neglected, his Orchestral output is not great ...

well, the two piano+orchestra pieces are pretty special, I think. And amongst his chamber scores the cello sonata also stands out strongly - a great piece IMO. But you are right, the piano output is the core of his music, and he writes for it wonderfully, a real pianist's composer.

[Luke]

The other thing - I didn't notice that Britten was on your list of top level composers left hors concours, and I assumed you'd classified him as a mostly post-war figure. But if he's there, so should Tippett be - and if Tippett is allowed, I change my vote again, as he's one of my very favourite composers, brave, human, daring to be different, and with a unique, strong, visionary style. A major, major composer, IMO.

[Grazioso]

Bax, who has never appealed to me much either, will get big votes from the symphonies-are-everything crowd, as will Rubbra (who I prefer and who I think deserves them).

As much as I love the symphony as a genre and some of the symphonies of Bax in particular, I believe he deserves big votes also on the strength of his shorter orchestral pieces and chamber music. Quite an intriguing composer.

[DavidW]

As much as I love the symphony as a genre and some of the symphonies of Bax in particular, I believe he deserves big votes also on the strength of his shorter orchestral pieces and chamber music. Quite an intriguing composer.

I love Bax' symphonies!  So I guess you are saying that I should also check out his chamber works?  Cool!  Anything in particular?

[Scarpia]

I love Bax' symphonies!  So I guess you are saying that I should also check out his chamber works?  Cool!  Anything in particular?

Two words, Nash ensemble.

[DavidW]

Fantastic!  Thanks, I'll be looking into that recording.

[Octo_Russ]

I love Bax' symphonies!  So I guess you are saying that I should also check out his chamber works?  Cool!  Anything in particular?

I rate his Piano Quintet highly, it has a very nicely worked out big first movement, and his Clarinet Sonata is short but inventive.




Take your pick, i've got the Chandos disc, but the Naxos is new to me, looks interesting, i think i'll get it, plus it's cheaper, and the Bridge [another Composer i missed on my poll] Quintet looks very inviting.

[DavidW]

I think I can find both of those on the nml, so I'll do some listening this afternoon.

[mc ukrneal]

Well, I chose
- Holst - Military Suites for band alone are worth it in my opinion
- Bantock - So many special pieces.

But a good list there with lots to listen to.

[Guido]

Finzi and Bliss for me. I love virtually everything that Finzi wrote, he was I think a great composer with the technique of a poor one - aside from the humdrum ditties and sub-Holstian marches that he relies on for faster music, there is something absolutely extraordinary about this man's music, so fragile and beautiful, relying on stock "Finzi phrases" so much, false relations and baroque falling basslines, but somehow always finding something poignent and moving to say even when he can't properly grasp the full form of his ideas. My favourite works by him all involve the orchestra, either with or without voice (aside from Lo the Full Final Sacrifice, which is wondrous with its organ accompaniment) - the 3 chamber works all lack something, and I often find the songs, even some of the Hardy ones, rather dry and similar after a while (though of course the best amongst them are really very great little utterances).


My other choice from the list was Bliss (though it might have been Holst - the personality and unique paring down and pruning of an essentially Edwardian pallete spiced with mystic Eastern accens is most interesting and used to incredible effect at times). Bliss I am only lukewarmly appreciative of in general - nothing paricularly wrong with the music a lot of the time, but it often doesn't hold my attention. And I have heard most of it. Why did I choose him, and why did I persist so much in exploring his oeuvre? Essentially for three works: first the two early studies for orchestra - his first work for the medium, which are just bursting and fresh with ideas and youthful ardour. Second the Music for Strings - so well written for strings and so immediately memorable with it's beautiful arcs of melody. And finally the late cello concerto of 1970, composed when he was 79, which I think is his greatest work - the cello line soaring and diving above the ravishing and suavely supportive orchestral accompaniment - it's like nothing else in his output and it is astonishing that such a resolutely tonal work of such freshness and vitality arrived in the same Aldeburgh festival as the Lutoslawski and Dutilleux concertos! Tim Hugh's reading on Naxos is superlative.

There are a few other orchestral works from the 50s onwards that I like quite a bit, but  none that I love. The established 'masterpieces' that everyone always acclaims, The Colour Symphony and the Clarinet Quintet leave me largely cold.

[Grazioso]

Two words, Nash ensemble.

That one, plus Naxos has recorded quite a few of his chamber works. A couple I quite like are the viola sonata and quintet for harp and strings: