The Second Viennese School in the 21st Century: Still New?

[Philoctetes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bPZuUsr3UA&feature=related

And this is supposed to represent the genius of our times? Have you people lost your marbles?

That's quite a leap you made there.

[greg]

That's quite a leap you made there.

Yeah, that wasn't... good.

This is alright. Better... maybe not great, but pretty cool anyways.
http://www.youtube.com/v/dltQoPRCbOs&feature=related

[karlhenning]

This is alright. Better... maybe not great, but pretty cool anyways.

Likewise . . . not especially new, not genius perhaps, but good clean fun:

http://www.youtube.com/v/XL5yiAi33dg

[Philoctetes]

Yeah, that wasn't... good.

This is alright. Better... maybe not great, but pretty cool anyways.
http://www.youtube.com/v/dltQoPRCbOs&feature=related

That wasn't was I was objecting too.

[Sid]

@ snyprrr:

I remember that towards the end of the lecture, Ford said that some composers (who were usually 'tonal') dabbled in atonality &/or serialism "but their heart wasn't in it." He said Stravinsky was successful at this, but Britten, Copland, Shostakovich less so.

I have read his book on C20th music called Illegal Harmonies, published in the late 1990's, but I don't remember him naming any names in that. In any case, you would have to go back into the 1960's and '70's & what was being played on the BBC classical station or in live concerts. I think that the "terrible" serial composers have been forgotten, and so have their works (so maybe Sessions and Babbitt don't qualify?)...

[karlhenning]

@ snyprrr:

I remember that towards the end of the lecture, Ford said that some composers (who were usually 'tonal') dabbled in atonality &/or serialism "but their heart wasn't in it." He said Stravinsky was successful at this, but Britten, Copland, Shostakovich less so.

"But their heart wasn't in it" has interesting implications, yes?

Britten and Shostakovich made idiosyncratic use of the twelve tones, without actually adopting Schoenberg's idea of Composition with Twelve Tones, All of Them Equal.  In all their music, though, I hear that that they composed with all their heart.

And, honestly, I like Copland's craggy earlier work just as well as the smooth 'populist' pieces.  (The question of what his heart was in, I am not competent to address.)

[snyprrr]

Likewise . . . not especially new, not genius perhaps, but good clean fun:

http://www.youtube.com/v/XL5yiAi33dg

Karl?? ?? ,... RIVERDANCE?

really?

Yes, that truly sucked. And then I watch an interview with said, dreadlocked,...er,...composer. So,...so,....what,s the word?  Not smug,....ah, so suburbian!!!! Hip Hop Etude,....puh-leeze!

Here, let me whip out my Variations on a Theme by the Counting Crows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bPZuUsr3UA&feature=related

And this is supposed to represent the genius of our times? Have you people lost your marbles?

[snyprrr]

Yeah, that wasn't... good.

This is alright. Better... maybe not great, but pretty cool anyways.
http://www.youtube.com/v/dltQoPRCbOs&feature=related

No,...ANYTHING that starts of with blusey slides,...nope, uhuh,...

IT'S ALL TV SOUNDTRACK MUSIC!






.....ahhhhhhhhhhhh.........

(yes, I'm screaming)


......aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.........




I also checked out the Jay Greenberg on YouTube. Oy,....that's just warmed over, bad Shosty at his most obvious.




All of this music is pathetically influenced by modern culture to the point that most rock bands show more originality and,...er,...genius.

Is this what our conservatories are filled with?,...spoil;ed brat, rich kids with nothing to say but what they picked up on the "street".

"Street cred",..hahahaha,...



I will drive to New York myself to smack Greenberg in his pampered, Long Island fasce. Ohhhh,...that could be construed as anti-semitism. oh no,...it really isn't about talent,...it's about what you represent. Greemberg = jew,.... the guy with the hiphop etude,...afro american,....

trust me,...I can pretty well figure what kind of thing will win the prizes: anything to do with the holocost, or being black in america,...or, here we go,....I predict the next famous american composer will have a latino name,...

yea, yea,...he'll have braved the arizona desert,...with pencil and music paper in his knapsack,....braving those racist americans to write his Undocumented Symphony.

Requiem for Those Who Died in the Desert





Are we sure that we're all not just bleeding heart liberals who have to some  worth in EVERYTHING, bec ause we don't have the GUTS to stand up and call a spade a spade???



You can't call Beethoven a genius, and these people, too. This is simply affirmative action. Same for all the jewish composers of the 20th century. frankly, I think Ford is talking about all those new york jews when he talks about the suckers. american music has simply become music by american-jews. and no,...it's not hate,...just the truth. count off the names yourself (Babbitt, Perle, Shapey, Druckman, Wolpe, Feldman, Glass, Reich,...endless). god bless me that it could be so obvious, yet pointing it out will get me excoriated.

great,...so now I'm just a gay-black-jew basher.



Charles Ives,....what do you think?








And yes, for me it IS all political. Please don't go off on the "snyprrr is an "-ist"". The fact seems to be that the jews run the show. Am I wrong???

If we can't continue without a flare-up, I will gladly back down and not post like this, ... to keep the peace

show me my wrongness (but do it with better YouTube clips than THAT, guys,...please)

[karlhenning]

Karl?? ?? ,... RIVERDANCE?

I'd never made that connection. Fascinating!

[Philoctetes]

Is there a way to condense snyprrr's insipidness?

It fucks up my page.

[karlhenning]

Is there a way to condense snyprrr's insipidness?

Just got to scroll.

And yes, for me it IS all political.

Well, that's a bit alien to me, but not to many others, I understand.

[Philoctetes]

Just got to scroll.

I don't have a scroll feature on my mouse. He might be the first poster I ignore.

[some guy]

People who need to have it proved to them that contemporary music is worthwhile will never be convinced by any arguments or by any you tube clips.

I don't think any of the clips proffered so far are representative of what young(er) composers are doing nowadays. Jay Greenberg certainly deserves whatever condign punishment snyprrr wants to mete out to him, but he's not at all representative of new music. To lament the demise of good music by pointing to a crappy composer or two is so obviously silly that I feel silly pointing that out!

There are plenty of fine composers out there. The ones on my list that gave JdP such fits are all very talented people who have written quite powerful and splendid music.

After a dozen years of listening to 17th, 18th and 19th century music, I spent another ten years devouring the music of the twentieth century. Since 1982, when I got "caught up," I have spent the bulk of my listening, both in concerts and in my living room, on contemporary music. I now listen largely to music of the past 15 years. In none of this have I ever stopped listening to (or even discovering new examples of) the music I started with when I was nine. If that suggests to you the possibility that the people on my list of younger composers might actually be worth listening to, why, that's the same possibility that occurred to me!!!

At least I have experienced contemporary music first hand, with sympathy and love and understanding. And I reached my conclusions about it AFTER listening, not before!! I know, that's so backwards. Conclusions are what you're supposed to start with. I guess I'm just a rebel.

[karlhenning]

People who need to have it proved to them that contemporary music is worthwhile will never be convinced by any arguments or by any you tube clips.

I don't think any of the clips proffered so far are representative of what young(er) composers are doing nowadays.

Both statements true (though I did not really offer the Zappa arrangement in that spirit).

[Josquin des Prez]

People who need to have it proved to them that contemporary music is worthwhile will never be convinced by any arguments or by any you tube clips.

You can believe that if you wish but it doesn't make it true. Fact is, i never had a problem heaping praise for modern composers who's music i actually deemed to be to my taste (most recently, Kapustin). Furthermore, i never saw much in terms of arguments or examples coming from your camp. Advocates of modern music are really doing a piss poor job in supporting and promoting contemporary artists, which to me seems to denote a lack of confidence from their part. 

[Philoctetes]

You can believe that if you wish but it doesn't make it true. Fact is, i never had a problem heaping praise for modern composers who's music i actually deemed to be to my taste (most recently, Kapustin). Furthermore, i never saw much in terms of arguments or examples coming from your camp.

Kapustin is lovely.

[karlhenning]

Furthermore, i never saw much in terms of arguments or examples coming from your camp. Advocates of modern music are really doing a piss poor job in supporting and promoting contemporary artists, which to me seems to denote a lack of confidence from their part. 

Of a piece with Michael's point is, that you do not convince anyone to like any music, by argument. The role and validity of "argument" in this process is dubious. I don't argue for my own music, which fact says nothing about my confidence in my work.

[jochanaan]

...Fact is, i never had a problem heaping praise for modern composers who's music i actually deemed to be to my taste...

(emphasis added)

Ah, finally, a statement that seems to reveal your heart.  Would you equate "to your taste" with "genius"?

[Josquin des Prez]

(emphasis added)

Ah, finally, a statement that seems to reveal your heart.  Would you equate "to your taste" with "genius"?

Yes. 

[karlhenning]

Yes. 

Error.