Don't Give up After the First Half

[springrite]

Now, back ON topic...

I wonder if nerves might have played a part in the unsatisfactory first half of the concert. It's an affliction that dogs many, many performers. Perhaps Mr. McCoy finally "warmed up" and a certain comfortability set in.

That could be a factor, though not necessarily a significant one. In my experience second half of recitals tends to be better. The other is that many performers are far more at ease knowing that most listeners don't have pre-conceived notions or familiarity on their side, and thus plays better. It is always daunting knowing that most of the audience have heard live or in recording dozens of different performances by famous artists.

[Mirror Image]

You're derailing this thread unnecessarily with this completely off-the-topic fixation.

Accommodation is - and has always been - the name of the game at GMG. Experience level DOESN'T factor in...

Classic evasion of my very accurate, and honest, point.    As many times as Ligeti has been discussed on this forum, it just seems quite ridiculous that Schlomo has never heard of him. As I said, I can understand not hearing the music, but to never have heard of this composer seems, quite frankly, absurd.

[Bulldog]

Classic evasion of my very accurate, and honest, point.    As many times as Ligeti has been discussed on this forum, it just seems quite ridiculous that Schlomo has never heard of him. As I said, I can understand not hearing the music, but to never have heard of this composer seems, quite frankly, absurd.

Yes, ridiculous and absurb.  The man deserves to be subjected to a punishment, perhaps 6 straight hours of listening to Ligeti - that should teach him a lesson.

[Mirror Image]

Yes, ridiculous and absurb.  The man deserves to be subjected to a punishment, perhaps 6 straight hours of listening to Ligeti - that should teach him a lesson.

You don't have to hear a composer's music in order to have heard of their name.

[Brian]

You can evade the point I'm making all you like and defend him, but the fact that Schlomo has never heard of Ligeti says more about him and how out of touch he is with classical music, then it does of the composer's own popularity, which has never been in question, because anybody with experience with classical music has run across his name at some point and more than likely very early on.

Look, the point of the thread was to say he really liked hearing Ligeti, and your contribution is to insult him for not knowing enough about classical music. As many GMGers know, I have a bit of a vested interest in this because in certain ways I have extremely limited knowledge classical music: as I once wrote in a previous thread, "I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something." If I had been mocked for this at the time, it would have been hurtful and rude. But GMG is an inclusive, friendly place, and the philosophy of this forum is, we'll all help each other be music lovers and we won't get mean and snippety if everyone else fails to conform to our own standards of music knowledge.

I'm sorry to break this to you, but Ligeti is not a mainstream composer. He is an acquired taste, but for the average regional orchestra attendee, self-motivated searching would be the only way to find a piece by Ligeti, or really even mention of him. Moreover, Schlomo, if he really lives in Hawaii, has not had a resident orchestra since 2009 due to the Honolulu SO's bankruptcy. These are not people, these "average classical listeners," who browse through Penguin Guides saying, "Here's a composer I've never heard of. I should order some of his CDs." I have talked to music performance students after their first introductions to Ligeti; does that make them poor students?

But really, the bottom line is that this argument is NOT about Ligeti. It's about applying litmus tests to GMG members to determine their qualities as posters. That's unkosher. If a newbie to classical came to this forum and said "Hi, I just saw the 1812 Overture at a festival and who's the composer? It sounded really good. I want to listen to more like it," we would be helpful and encouraging, rather than saying, "the fact that newbie has never heard of Tchaikovsky says more about him and how out of touch he is with classical music." I should like to think that the same standards of kindness, and the same principles of helpful encouragement, apply to typical classical listeners like Schlomo (no condescension intended; I am merely making an assumption!), and indeed connoisseurs like you and me (ditto). I, too, am surprised that Schlomo had never even heard the name Ligeti. But that doesn't make me morally outraged; it doesn't rent the fabric of my being. It isn't actually troubling at all. It just means he got to discover something new.

[Satzaroo]

Look, the point of the thread was to say he really liked hearing Ligeti, and your contribution is to insult him for not knowing enough about classical music. As many GMGers know, I have a bit of a vested interest in this because in certain ways I have extremely limited knowledge classical music: as I once wrote in a previous thread, "I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something." If I had been mocked for this at the time, it would have been hurtful and rude. But GMG is an inclusive, friendly place, and the philosophy of this forum is, we'll all help each other be music lovers and we won't get mean and snippety if everyone else fails to conform to our own standards of music knowledge.

I'm sorry to break this to you, but Ligeti is not a mainstream composer. He is an acquired taste, but for the average regional orchestra attendee, self-motivated searching would be the only way to find a piece by Ligeti, or really even mention of him. Moreover, Schlomo, if he really lives in Hawaii, has not had a resident orchestra since 2009 due to the Honolulu SO's bankruptcy. These are not people, these "average classical listeners," who browse through Penguin Guides saying, "Here's a composer I've never heard of. I should order some of his CDs." I have talked to music performance students after their first introductions to Ligeti; does that make them poor students?

But really, the bottom line is that this argument is NOT about Ligeti. It's about applying litmus tests to GMG members to determine their qualities as posters. That's unkosher. If a newbie to classical came to this forum and said "Hi, I just saw the 1812 Overture at a festival and who's the composer? It sounded really good. I want to listen to more like it," we would be helpful and encouraging, rather than saying, "the fact that newbie has never heard of Tchaikovsky says more about him and how out of touch he is with classical music." I should like to think that the same standards of kindness, and the same principles of helpful enc ouragemnt, apply to typical classical listeners like Schlomo (no condescension intended; I am merely making an assumption!), and indeed connoisseurs like you and me (ditto). I, too, am surprised that Schlomo had never even heard the name Ligeti. But that doesn't make me morally outraged; it doesn't rent the fabric of my being. It isn't actually troubling at all. It just means he got to discover something new.

Considering that half of my life I have been hibernating in the boondocks of North Carolina, it's amazing that there is any oxygen left in my cave.  I must be just about brain dead because I had never heard of Ligeti before last week. It's so humbling that someone residing on Mt. Olympus (the incomparable Mirror Image) has repeatedly bothered to point out my ignorance.

[Guido]

Ligeti is regarded, not only amongst critics and scholars, but also classical listeners as one of the major composers of the 20th Century. 

What a strange sentence. Why are critics and scholars in a different category from classical listeners? Which composers are considered major by one camp and not by the other?

[Philoctetes]

What a strange sentence. Why are critics and scholars in a different category from classical listeners? Which composers are considered major by one camp and not by the other?

What's even more surprising is that posters still engage Mirror Image (Henk, etc.), in dialogue, and still seem to expect it to be rational.

[Guido]

What's even more surprising is that posters still engage Mirror Image (Henk, etc.), in dialogue, and still seem to expect it to be rational.

Apologies for my apparent strange behaviour - I haven't been around here very much in the past few weeks and forgot about this fact. I felt it as a twinge as I was posting but couldn't put my finger exactly on what the source of the twinge was. Thanks for reminding me.

[Philoctetes]

Apologies for my apparent strange behaviour - I haven't been around here very much in the past few weeks and forgot about this fact. I felt it as a twinge as I was posting but couldn't put my finger exactly on what the source of the twinge was. Thanks for reminding me.

No need for apologies. 

[Octo_Russ]

Even though i've heard of Ligeti quite some time ago, i own few recordings by him, and i hadn't heard his Etude, L'escalier Du Diable [The Devil's Staircase] until a few months ago, and what a powerful piece it is, everyone should get to know it, here's Greg Anderson playing it on YouTube,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZTaiDHqs5s

[Philoctetes]

For my Ligeti, I much prefer his orchestral music. Here's my favorite piece of his: San Francisco Polyphony

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IklGo9CQ5o

[Bulldog]

You don't have to hear a composer's music in order to have heard of their name.

At the same time, there isn't much value added in knowing a composer's name without hearing the music.

Anyways, my listening for the remainder of this Monday (now 4:25 PM) will be all Ligeti.

[Satzaroo]

Classic evasion of my very accurate, and honest, point.    As many times as Ligeti has been discussed on this forum, it just seems quite ridiculous that Schlomo has never heard of him. As I said, I can understand not hearing the music, but to never have heard of this composer seems, quite frankly, absurd.

You are a veteran member. I am a recent member. Connect the dots, O Great One.

[DavidW]

For my Ligeti, I much prefer his orchestral music. Here's my favorite piece of his: San Francisco Polyphony

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IklGo9CQ5o

I love that piece!

[Opus106]

Even though i've heard of Ligeti quite some time ago, i own few recordings by him, and i hadn't heard his Etude, L'escalier Du Diable [The Devil's Staircase] until a few months ago, and what a powerful piece it is, everyone should get to know it, here's Greg Anderson playing it on YouTube,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZTaiDHqs5s

That top-rated comment made me smile. Just last night, before going to sleep, I was reading about Escher's works.

As for the Ligeti in the video, I find it immensely listen-able, and therefore I'm guessing that's not what true connoisseurs should be listening to.



Thanks for the link.

[Scarpia]

Even though i've heard of Ligeti quite some time ago, i own few recordings by him, and i hadn't heard his Etude, L'escalier Du Diable [The Devil's Staircase] until a few months ago, and what a powerful piece it is, everyone should get to know it, here's Greg Anderson playing it on YouTube,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZTaiDHqs5s

Although I have a few discs from the Sony Ligeti edition, that didn't include the one with "The Devil's Staircase."  It is an inexpensive release these days, so I have remedied that.