GMG classical music box-set

[Scarpia]

In my mind, this has nothing to do with need, but with having some fun and putting out a good product.

I see!  That's the philosophy that put so many classical labels into receivership!   

[marvinbrown]

Proposal for the content of the box set:

14 discs:

- discs 7-8: opera

  2 CDs on opera  !!!  I guess the Ring Cycle will not be adequately represented in this set  !

marvin

[Bulldog]

I see!  That's the philosophy that put so many classical labels into receivership!   

Not good -  making jokes instead of planning, assigning and executing.  Come to think of it, you would be great for the making of all assignments; of course, you'd have to be assigned to that job before you could claim its responsibilities.  We're going to need some Job Descriptions - definitely a job for JdP.

[Henk]

It has been done many times by many labels, and I don't see added value from having people who happen to visit a discussion board.   DG has an "Entree" series which has just this purpose.

http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/series/?ID=ENTREX

These are just singles discs. The box-set covers the whole of classical music. It's selected by listeners with a booklet written by listeners. It covers much recorded music from various labels. These 3 things are all unique. So I think it's not just another box. Furthermore I think you marginalize GMG. I think labels are in fact very pleased about the existence of GMG and for labels GMG can be interesting as a third party to cooperate with in this project.

My goal with this is to introduce people and in particular young people in classical music. Who can do this better then dedicated listeners? And only a third party possibly can organize this, labels won't do it, because they are too commercial. People interested in classical music just don't have overview of classical music and all recorded music. People want to be introduced and want to have knowledge about the classical world and want to be sure to get recordings of high quality. We can offer this in cooperation with labels.

Henk

[Henk]

My previous two postings were dismissive about this project; that's because my initial reaction to any group project is negative.  After having some time to think about it, I'd be happy to contribute.

Concerning the total number of discs in this box, I think it's best to not have any particular number in mind and just develop the box and see how it turns out. 

I do maintain my objection to bits/pieces of complete works.

One more thing - wouldn't there be some costs associated with the project?  Who pays?

The labels should finance it, as they also get the profit.

I think this box-set shouldn't be too large. It's an introduction, when there are too many discs people won't take time to listen to all the discs. Also labels possibly lose interest, because they won't give away too much recorded material of their catalogue.

Of course there should be complete works on it, the greatest part I think should consist of complete works. But I think there are advantages of having just movements on it. I agree what's been mentioned by other members already. In this way one can select less accessible music as well. It's also is commercial interesting for labels. People can buy the complete work when they like the movement. Another advantage is that we can cover more of classical music.

Henk

[Henk]

In my mind, this has nothing to do with need, but with having some fun and putting out a good product.

Are you on board?

And where's the guy who started this thread?  Having to be the brains of the operation, Henk has to be on call at all times and push toward the finish line.

Of course it's about fun also. This forum is about fun and about learning. That should be reflected in the process of making this box-set.

I will contact a label, I think Channel Classics (http://www.channelclassics.com/), a dutch label. Propose the idea and inform myself what they think about it and ask if they are willing to cooperate.

Henk

[Brian]

I think it's possible to pick out good works for introductions, that are also short. That way, splitting up longer works can largely be avoided, at least on some of the discs. (Intro to Bruckner might be different  .)

For example, purely as a "proof of concept" playlist of short works that could work on an introduction album, this might be an intro to 19th century piano music:

Beethoven: Moonlight Sonata [Jando Naxos; 14:45]
Beethoven: Sonata No 27 Op 90 [Richter Brilliant; 12:30]
Chopin: Nocturne Op 27 No 2 [Boegner Calliope; 5:30]
Chopin: Polonaise Op 53, "The Famous One" [Horowitz Sony; 6:30]
Liszt: Au bord d'une source and Sonetto 104 [Berman DG; 10:00]
Schubert: Sonata D960, mvt. II. [Lazic Channel Classics; 10:00]
Schumann: Kreisleriana, mvt. III. [Wurtz Brilliant; 4:15]
Dvorak: Humoresque No 4 [Veselka Naxos; 3:00]
Tchaikovsky: The Seasons, June [Igumnov public domain; 4:30]
Balakirev: Islamey [Brendel Vox; 9:00]

TT ~80:00
and, discounting suites or series, only two big pieces got broken up into bleeding chunks!

P.S. Rachmaninov's preludes conveniently came out in the wrong century, except for the C sharp minor... and Debussy's Suite Bergamasque debuted in 1905.

P.P.S. Since you're contacting Channel Classics, I added an original Channel recording to the playlist.

[Brian]

An idea for the booklet might be, for every track/work, a listing of five "If you like this..." recommendations of other pieces of music.

[Henk]

Brian, that's a nice selection. It prooves that one disc already contains a varied selection of music, so one can imagine how varied it will be when we make a selection of classical music for 14 discs.

I think it's good to seperate complete works from short works and just movements. Otherwise the listing and the arrangement of the box-set will quickly looks unstructured and messy maybe.

I have the following in mind for the first part consisting (early music till 19th century) of 6 discs:
discs 1-3: complete works
disc 4-5: short works / movements of works
disc 6: movements of works

You choose piano music of 19th century. That's interesting. I think from the 19th century music took other directions and went away from tradition and of course later again with Debussy and Schoenberg. I think this can be used to structure our selection of music. In my perception, and I think this is a quite general conception, in 19th century the romantic movement with composers as Liszt moved away from tradition. Beethoven and Mendelssohn were still rooted in tradition. So I think it would be a good thing to give the romantic movement a seperate place in the box-set, in my model I reserved 3 discs for this and also 3 discs for modern music from Debussy to contemporary music.

So for the romantic movement and modern music we have 3 discs each (6 in total), this can be arranged like:
disc 1: complete works
disc 2: complete works / short works
disc 3: short works / movements of works

This is just a model, but I think it's good to keep complete works seperate from short works or movements of works. We just have to see how things work out if we start make a selection. In communication with the labels a definitive model and also the size of the box should be choosen.

I hope labels will react positive.

[Henk]

An idea for the booklet might be, for every track/work, a listing of five "If you like this..." recommendations of other pieces of music.

I like that idea. One can recommended other works of the composer in this way.

The selection of the music should represent the favours of the members, but we should also consider it to be introductory and to be interesting for a larger public. That doesn't have to mean more advanced stuff shouldn't be in the selection. I think it would be a mistake to select only accessible or the most popular works, people probably rather loose interest. But when one member likes a particular piece of music which is not well known by other members I think we should not select it for the box-set.

In this way each member can see his favours reflected in the box-set and it will be a real GMG product. Members can write something for the booklet, long or short it doesn't matter. Members can talk about their personal favorite music and can share some of their knowledge that is interesting for people. The booklet can really be of a different kind then the usual booklets.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Who's going to pay the royalties for using all these recordings and performances? What label is going to allow versions of a work from a competitive label to be used with its own properties? What label is going to accept album notes from a group of amateurs? Who is going to review these album notes and how are they to be compensated? Who's going to design and produce the booklet and the box? How is the thing to be marketed and sold?

Honestly . . . 

[(poco) Sforzando]

Now what you could do - and this might be practicable - is to have the members here write a series of essays about their favorite music, and submit it to a publisher, along with recommendations for recordings. In this way, there are no issues with copyrights. You'd probably need someone to serve as general editor, though, and there are inevitably going to be hurt feelings if people whose essays are not up to par are rejected.

[Henk]

Now what you could do - and this might be practicable - is to have the members here write a series of essays about their favorite music, and submit it to a publisher, along with recommendations for recordings. In this way, there are no issues with copyrights. You'd probably need someone to serve as general editor, though, and there are inevitably going to be hurt feelings if people whose essays are not up to par are rejected.

Then it's not about fun and learning anymore addressed to a public who want to be introduced into classical music, but it quickly becomes dry and academic. I think it's nice when people give their personal experience with classical music and share their knowledge, knowledge that's not theoretical, so it can actually be absorbed by the public.

Henk

[Sergeant Rock]

Who's going to pay the royalties for using all these recordings and performances? What label is going to allow versions of a work from a competitive label to be used with its own properties? What label is going to accept album notes from a group of amateurs? Who is going to review these album notes and how are they to be compensated? Who's going to design and produce the booklet and the box? How is the thing to be marketed and sold?

Honestly . . . 

As I said in my first post, Henk lives in a different reality. What he's proposing is impossible to achieve here...in this universe.

Sarge

[bhodges]

Henk, while your idea is a good one in theory, I have to agree with Sfz and Sarge: the reality of doing a project like this is far too complicated.  The royalties issue alone would be a daunting one.

--Bruce

[(poco) Sforzando]

Then it's not about fun and learning anymore addressed to a public who want to be introduced into classical music, but it quickly becomes dry and academic. I think it's nice when people give their personal experience with classical music and share their knowledge, knowledge that's not theoretical, so it can actually be absorbed by the public.

That is a classic example of a straw man argument. (That is, objecting to something your interlocutor never claimed in the first place.) The nature of the writing is not the issue at all. By all means folks can and should share their knowledge however they like. The issue is the practical problems of using copyrighted recordings.

[Henk]

As I said in my first post, Henk lives in a different reality. What he's proposing is impossible to achieve here...in this universe.

Sarge

You don't give any argument, Sarge. You might be right however.

I'm not stupid, I have thought about all objections mentioned by Sforzando. But I hope I can interest labels for it and I think I have good arguments which I mentioned in this thread. I will found out if the idea is good or not.

You and Sforzando also don't know how labels think I assume. The world doesn't consist of facts, but of possibilities.

Henk

[(poco) Sforzando]

As I said in my first post, Henk lives in a different reality. What he's proposing is impossible to achieve here...in this universe.

Sarge

And what I'm proposing is possible to achieve  . . . in this universe.

[(poco) Sforzando]

You don't give any argument, Sarge. You might be right however.

I'm not stupid, I have thought about all objections mentioned by Sforando [sic]. But I hope I can interest labels for it and I think I have good arguments which I mentioned in this thread. I will found out if the idea is good or not.

You and Sforando [sic] also don't know how labels think I assume. The world doesn't consist of facts, but of possibilities.

Henk

Do let us know how the generous, altruistic, non-competitive labels respond to your inquiries.

[karlhenning]

As I said in my first post, Henk lives in a different reality. What he's proposing is impossible to achieve here...in this universe.

Sarge

And he'll need a label to match : )