Make a Jazz Noise Here

[Leon]

Leon.. the individual releases fair much better than those big expensive complete boxes which mostly comprise of weak stuff in desperate need of editing. Ditch the hours & hours of chaff i say and go for the individual releases. And there are better places to go to get the best of the 2nd Quintet E.S.P/Miles Smiles/Nefertiti (I like the first Quintet better myself) .. and for electric Miles ... the Jack Johnson album is tops (esp. the track Right Off), it was Miles's own favorite as well.

Hi James, I have the originals too; at last count I had over 140 Miles CDs.  You might say I am a fan. 

Since a jazz recording is merely a snapshot of one performance, I like to hear as many different performances of the same song as I can in order to get a fuller appreciation for the band, period and approach.

IMO, there are no "out takes" in jazz.

As far as expense, I get almost all of these sets from friends who were involved in their production.

[karlhenning]

Your opinion that there are no out takes is false of course

Another classic!

[bwv 1080]

a couple of great duos

http://www.youtube.com/v/4WzoRh79BzY


http://www.youtube.com/v/YMdz1ejFnp8

Louis was promoting an album of country music he recorded in 1970

Louis Armstrong
Louis "Country & Western" Armstrong
Avco Embassy
1970
Many jazzites make the mistake of dismissing country and Americana as simpleton music made by and for simpletons. Fortunately there have been musicians in both jazz and country who have embraced each other's genres to create some beautiful and eclectic American music. Two of the most notable jazz musicians to enjoy country were none other than Charlie Parker and Louis Armstrong.

According to Ken Burns' jazz documentary, Bird was a huge fan of Hank Williams. Since the bebop pioneer died much too young, we will never know if he would have explored this avenue, but Louis Armstrong went all the way and released an often-forgotten record completely devoted to country music.

Although jazz had flirted with country long before Satchmo released Louis "Country & Western" Armstrong, this recording is essential. It stands in the middle somewhere between Bob Wills' legendary country swing (aka Texas swing) of the thirties and the forties and Willie Nelson's country-jazz crossover records in the early eighties. C&W Armstrong has been virtually ignored, now out of print and and never even available on CD.

The record itself is nowhere near as groundbreaking as the work released by Wills, Nelson, Lyle Lovett, Bill Frisell or bluegrass-jazz innovators Bela Fleck and Alison Brown. In fact, Armstrong doesn't even play his trumpet on the record, but his trademark raspy vocal chops are at work. The record is filled out with Nashville's session men Jack Eubanks (lead guitar), Stu Basore (steel guitar), Willie Ackerman (skins), Hank Strzelecki (bass), Larry Butler (piano) and Billie Grammer (rhythm guitar).

What is rather strange to lying on the side one is his contemporary pop take on hippie folk-rockers The Youngbloods's "Get Together." Yet hearing Satchmo laying his legendary chops over country classics such as 'Miller's Cave' (a hit for Hank Snow), 'Almost Persuaded' (David Houston), and 'Crazy Arms' (Ray Price) makes this worth seeking out.

The record has much in common with Ray Charles' legendary Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music. New Sounds was the definitive crossover album by Charles that helped to create the sub-genre known as country soul. Ray built a section of his career on this sound without ever taking on the full extent of country music. Yet Charles's cover of Don Gibson's "I Can't Stop Loving You" and Johnny Cash's "Busted" are R&B classics. Yet no one in the jazz community ever tackled Country with such zeal. While some may cast this record as a novelty, one play of this record proves that certainly isn't so. While contemporaries such as Miles was fusing rock and funk into jazz, Louis took on a music he enjoyed as well.

With this record Louis proved that country was an original American icon that deserved the same amount of fervor given to jazz. His amazing phrasing and tenderness on the ballads proved he loved this music. It's unfortunate that the record hasn't gotten that much attention. At least when Coltrane released Ballads or Bird put out Charlie Parker with Strings there was controversy about "selling out.' There is no sell out here, either. Why would there be? This is a record that captures a man singing songs he truly liked for an audience that was rather fickle about the chosen genre.

Of course unlike jazz or bluegrass there isn't any ripping solos to showcase off the musician's ability. Still his band plays great arrangements at the hands of engineers Bob Lifton and Charlie Tallent. Louis presents a record that mainly contains pure unadulterated country, although "Take Her Away" gets some classic New Orleans style jazz laid onto its groove.

This record may not win over new fans to country or to jazz. In fact my favorite jazz/country record remains Lyle Lovett's Lyle Lovett and his Large Band, which opens with a must hear cover of Clifford Brown's "Blues Walk." Still, this record stands as an essential document of Louis Armstrong and his amazing musical insight. It still boggles the mind how Louis can pull off pretty much anything he tried his hand at. Listeners who have not heard this album will be pleasantly surprised by how well Armstrong pulls off his ode to country.

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=783

[bwv 1080]

the oscar peterson solo here is simply stunning

http://www.youtube.com/v/f44qgQA1B-g

[Leon]

the oscar peterson solo here is simply stunning

http://www.youtube.com/v/f44qgQA1B-g

Yes, that is a very nice performance of that classic Jobim song by Oscar Peterson.  It is included in one of the better tribute CDs to come out after Jobim's death:

Girl from Ipanema: The Antonio Carlos Jobim Songbook

[asin]B000001EBX[/asin]

Verve did a good job of delving into their back catalog for these uniformly good tracks.

[bwv 1080]

Yes, that is a very nice performance of that classic Jobim song by Oscar Peterson.  It is included in one of the better tribute CDs to come out after Jobim's death:

Girl from Ipanema: The Antonio Carlos Jobim Songbook

[asin]B000001EBX[/asin]

Verve did a good job of delving into their back catalog for these uniformly good tracks.

Yeah, that is a great album.  Although the Peterson track is the only non-Brazilian I really like on the album.  I prefer the Gilbertos and Tony Jobim's own recordings to Stan Getz or other American Jazz players (although I do like Charlie Byrd quite a bit)

The Peterson album the wave track is taken from is Motions & Emotions which also gives Yesterday the Bossa Nova treatment

http://www.youtube.com/v/cxc-vqFgtQE

there is a nice arrangement of Eleanor Rigby on the disc as well

[jowcol]

Your opinion that there are no out takes is false of course, not everything played is great, in fact; it rarely is. A recording is a full-on production, it's more than just a snapshot. I like Miles too ... but it's very hit & miss, so it's best to go for the cream of the crop is what I'm saying ... otherwise your wasting life listening to a lot of mediocre stuff. (i.e. those big boxes that contain mostly subpar crap that hit the cutting room floor for a reason)

Our, in the words of the great prophet-- "Don't you believe in quality control?"

Actually, I do-- quality of performance.   I have some bootleg Coltrane that, in terms of performance, blows away anything that was commercially released, even though the audio quality was not as good.  I'd take either of the Paris 1961 performance of My Favorite Things over the studio version, and the 1963 Stuttgart show was, IMO, a revelation of how far that band had gone.  The Helsinki 61 show had one of Tyner's best solos, and Copenhagen show from that also a rare cover of Delilah that was never recorded.   I'm glad I took the time to dig in-- I could see why others would not.

Although I'd agree that the material in some of the Miles box sets may be uneven,  the box sets offer insight into how much was and was not added in production.  For in A Silent way, it is pretty dramatic what role Teo had, and I honestly don't listen to the other tracks that much-- but value it for a slice of history, but there are a couple of nuggets I come back to.  One thing I like about the Cellar Door Box set, on the other hand, was how much the Dec 19 show sounded like the Live tracks from Live Evil. And, listening to every night of that run, you could hear not only the high energy level, but how the material was shaken up each night.   And on the Jack Johnson sessions, you got to hear some of the source material before Teo messed it up when he recycled some of it on Big Fun. -- this was one occasion where I thought his editing and effects got in the way of the material.  I preferred the source.  Although the studio  Jack Johnson is one of my faves.  I like the option of comparing.


There are some that field that overly structured recording kill the essence of jazz-- I wouldn't go that far.  Some of my favorite jazz albums benefited from a lot of post-recording editing and wizardry.  But to assume that Better Recording=Better Performance is a bit of reach.  An Excellent case in point is the Ellington Live in Newport album.  During Gonsalves's epic solo on Dimenuendo and Crescendo in blue, his solo was recorded at the right sound level-- he didn't get close enough to the microphone.  Of course, this was the solo that brought the crowd to it's feet, and also reignited Ellington's career.  Despite the flaws. 


"A recording is a full on production" -- Ellington Live at Newport?  Garner's Concert by the Sea?  Coltrane Live at the Village Vanguard or Birdland?   Miles Davis Quintet Live at the Plugged Nickel?   I would say that the aim of those recordings was to capture a live performance, not produce it into something else.  I'd certainly suggest checking out the recording notes for the Coltrane at the Village Vanguard set to get an idea of what the goals were.

[jowcol]

Joe's Symphony ..

"It is all improvisation," he once said of his composing style.
"All my tunes are improvisations. I'm a formal improviser. Even my symphony I improvised." - Josef Zawinul

Again, no clue what you're getting at with all these unnecessary quotes from books etc. ...

Actually, this does explain a lot-- it's pretty clear how you share a lot of Zawinul's ideas about what is or is not improvisation.  I'm not sure if the majority of jazz musicians would share it, but that isn't intended as a value judgment.  I think valid art can be created either way.

[Mirror Image]

Our, in the words of the great prophet-- "Don't you believe in quality control?"

Actually, I do-- quality of performance.   I have some bootleg Coltrane that, in terms of performance, blows away anything that was commercially released, even though the audio quality was not as good.  I'd take either of the Paris 1961 performance of My Favorite Things over the studio version, and the 1963 Stuttgart show was, IMO, a revelation of how far that band had gone.  The Helsinki 61 show had one of Tyner's best solos, and Copenhagen show from that also a rare cover of Delilah that was never recorded.   I'm glad I took the time to dig in-- I could see why others would not.

Although I'd agree that the material in some of the Miles box sets may be uneven,  the box sets offer insight into how much was and was not added in production.  For in A Silent way, it is pretty dramatic what role Teo had, and I honestly don't listen to the other tracks that much-- but value it for a slice of history, but there are a couple of nuggets I come back to.  One thing I like about the Cellar Door Box set, on the other hand, was how much the Dec 19 show sounded like the Live tracks from Live Evil. And, listening to every night of that run, you could hear not only the high energy level, but how the material was shaken up each night.   And on the Jack Johnson sessions, you got to hear some of the source material before Teo messed it up when he recycled some of it on Big Fun. -- this was one occasion where I thought his editing and effects got in the way of the material.  I preferred the source.  Although the studio  Jack Johnson is one of my faves.  I like the option of comparing.


There are some that field that overly structured recording kill the essence of jazz-- I wouldn't go that far.  Some of my favorite jazz albums benefited from a lot of post-recording editing and wizardry.  But to assume that Better Recording=Better Performance is a bit of reach.  An Excellent case in point is the Ellington Live in Newport album.  During Gonsalves's epic solo on Dimenuendo and Crescendo in blue, his solo was recorded at the right sound level-- he didn't get close enough to the microphone.  Of course, this was the solo that brought the crowd to it's feet, and also reignited Ellington's career.  Despite the flaws. 


"A recording is a full on production" -- Ellington Live at Newport?  Garner's Concert by the Sea?  Coltrane Live at the Village Vanguard or Birdland?   Miles Davis Quintet Live at the Plugged Nickel?   I would say that the aim of those recordings was to capture a live performance, not produce it into something else.  I'd certainly suggest checking out the recording notes for the Coltrane at the Village Vanguard set to get an idea of what the goals were.

There's no need trying to reason with someone who doesn't want to be reasoned with. James will continue to think what he thinks, which is that his opinion is the only valid one in the world. He certainly listens to some good jazz, but he also listens to some God awful stuff that I wouldn't wish on someone's worst enemy, but you don't hear me bitching and moaning about it. He is out for himself and not out to learn anything from other people who have much more experience than he does. He's a classic know-it-all. I've washed my hands of his foul, obnoxious behavior many threads ago. I suggest you do the same if you want to keep your sanity.

[Josquin des Prez]

[asin]B000005HBG[/asin]

01 Save Your Love For Me (Buddy Johnson)
02 Teaneck (Nat Adderley)
03 Never Will I Marry (Frank Loesser)
04 I Can't Get Started (Vernon Duke, Ira Gershwin)
05 The Old Country (Curtis Lewis, Adderley)
06 One Man's Dream (Joe Zawinul, C Wright)
07 Happy Talk (Richard Rodgers, Oscar Hammerstein II)
08 Never Say Yes (Adderley)
09 This Masquerade Is Over (Herb Magidson, Allie Wrubel)
10 Unit 7 (Sam Jones)
11 A Sleepin Bee (Harold Arlen, Truman Capote)

Nancy Wilson vocals (1,3,5,7,9,11)
Cannonball Adderley alto saxophone
Nat Adderley cornet
Louis Hayes drums
Sam Jones double bass
Joe Zawinul piano

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Wilson/Cannonball_Adderley

I was just listening to this today. Adderley is a monster, one of the most underrated horn players ever. Nancy Wilson is a great singer as well. She sounds a lot like Billie Holiday, but all though she's a bit less intense then Holiday was in her prime, the high definition quality of the record sort of makes up for it. By the time Holiday started to record in hi-def, her voice wasn't what it used to be anymore, at least to my hears. Always thought that was regrettable, since she had the sweetest voice among the high profile Jazz singers of that era. Once again, IMO.

[jowcol]

jowol you're out of your depth, uninformed .. & never make assumptions .. Joe was a great man as well as a visionary musician in a class all by himself. You have obviously have no clue on the scope of his musicianship and vast accumulated knowledge. I was fortunate to see him live on occasion and was often left speechless at the band and music I was hearing ... a freight train of rhythm & sound .. what a master he was.

Add two more the the list of classic quotes!




Don't worry MI-- I'm not holding my breath for any sudden conversion.  Frankly, if that were to happen, I would be devasted from the loss of an nearly inexhaustable source of entertainment.   It would be like killing the Goose that lays a LOT of golden eggs!

Sometimes the journey IS the destination.

[jowcol]

I was just listening to this today. Adderley is a monster, one of the most underrated horn players ever. Nancy Wilson is a great singer as well. She sounds a lot like Billie Holiday, but all though she's a bit less intense then Holiday was in her prime, the high definition quality of the record sort of makes up for it. By the time Holiday started to record in hi-def, her voice wasn't what it used to be anymore, at least to my hears. Always thought that was regrettable, since she had the sweetest voice among the high profile Jazz singers of that era. Once again, IMO.

Among vocalists, I'm a big fan of Dinah Washington, although she jumped around between blues, jazz and pop, but she had a wonderful emotional edge to her singing (on the best songs) that reminded me a bit of Billie Holiday.  The First Issue compilation is a good overview of her Mercury years-- I'm not as fond of the pop stuff, but there is some other really fine material here. 


Back to the Blues was a pretty solid return to form after her emphasis on pop.  Nobody knows the Way I Feel this Morning is epic, IMO.


The Bessie Smith Songbook on the whole was pretty disappointing, and seems to be out of print.  The band sounded very hokey on purpose, but the cut Back Water Blues  really hooked me when I first heard it.  Your mileage may vary.

http://www.youtube.com/v/HoB_EP6vFzM



I'd agree about Holliday's later recordings, although the very raggedness of her singing in those sessions could be very compelling by itself.

[Mirror Image]

jowol you're out of your depth, uninformed .. & never make assumptions .. Joe was a great man as well as a visionary musician in a class all by himself. You have obviously have no clue on the scope of his musicianship and vast accumulated knowledge. I was fortunate to see him live on occasion and was often left speechless at the band and music I was hearing ... a freight train of rhythm & sound .. what a master he was.

Not to derail the James' "Zawinul" Fanboy Express here, but I think we all can acknowledge that he was a great jazz musician, but even jazz musicians burnout eventually. The problem with Zawinul is not with his technical facility on the piano, but with his attitude about music and the kind of music he played. I'm no great lover of fusion, but I think he was a sellout. Just like Miles Davis was a sellout and continued to be from Bitches Brew onwards. Acoustic jazz is where its at and there's nothing that can take the place of real instruments. Herbie Hancock was a sellout for years, but he did make several returns to acoustic-based jazz that actually took virtuosity in order to play. Fusion, for me, marked the end of jazz music. From this movement forward, it took on many other guises, but I was so happy when the 1990s arrived and jazz musicians were f****** tired of keyboards and trying to pretend to be something they're not, which were rock musician wannabes.

James, you can think what you want to and disagree with anybody all day long, but the reality of the matter is you're the one who doesn't have a clue about what you're talking about. You know NOTHING (I can type in all caps too) about improvisation nor do you know your jazz history. You continue to show your ignorance time and time again, but this time you've really gone over the edge. You give jazz music a bad name. Please stop listening to it and return to another music you claim to know.

[jowcol]

Hey whatever jowol .. you have no 'real' clue about the art, ditto the level that Joe was at. That's glaringly obvious.

*giggles*

Please, give me another.  I am am suffering from an  irony-deficiency  this morning.

[Grazioso]

Just like Miles Davis was a sellout and continued to be from Bitches Brew onwards. Acoustic jazz is where its at and there's nothing that can take the place of real instruments. Herbie Hancock was a sellout for years, but he did make several returns to acoustic-based jazz that actually took virtuosity in order to play. Fusion, for me, marked the end of jazz music. From this movement forward, it took on many other guises, but I was so happy when the 1990s arrived and jazz musicians were f****** tired of keyboards and trying to pretend to be something they're not, which were rock musician wannabes.

I understand your point, but I wonder if you might be throwing out the baby with the bathwater. What of the electric guitar or Hammond B3 organ that were commonly used before fusion in "straight" jazz situations? Not acoustic, but certainly "real" instruments. What of guys like Jimmy Smith or Wes Montgomery, who were major players situated well inside the straight-ahead jazz tradition during its heyday of the 50's and 60's?

I would be careful, too, of labeling someone--particularly of Miles's stature--a sellout because he explored fusion. If Miles was consciously undermining or neglecting his own artistic desires to make a quick buck, then "sellout" would be an apt term. I don't know that that's the case here. Certainly part of his artistic identity consisted of being ahead of the curve and trying new things.

[Leon]

I combined two preferences of mine: 1) piano-less groups and 2) straight-ahead, post-bop jazz guitar led groups with these recordings:

[asin]B00006C77B[/asin]

And what is now repackaged as "Standards" but was first released as "Remembering"

[asin]B000005GVJ[/asin]

[Mirror Image]

I understand your point, but I wonder if you might be throwing out the baby with the bathwater. What of the electric guitar or Hammond B3 organ that were commonly used before fusion in "straight" jazz situations? Not acoustic, but certainly "real" instruments. What of guys like Jimmy Smith or Wes Montgomery, who were major players situated well inside the straight-ahead jazz tradition during its heyday of the 50's and 60's?

I would be careful, too, of labeling someone--particularly of Miles's stature--a sellout because he explored fusion. If Miles was consciously undermining or neglecting his own artistic desires to make a quick buck, then "sellout" would be an apt term. I don't know that that's the case here. Certainly part of his artistic identity consisted of being ahead of the curve and trying new things.

Actually the electric guitar and Hammond B3 organ have become apart of the sound of jazz. The electric guitar has been used in jazz since the 1930s. The Hammond B3 organ wasn't used regularly in jazz until the 1960s, so the guitar has more history with the music than the B3. Anyway, maybe this is more about my personal opinion about jazz than anything else. I just think jazz, like classical, is better when played on real instruments. Things started getting out of control with the electric piano and later with the all the crazy synthesized stuff. It just didn't appeal to me that much.

[Josquin des Prez]

Among vocalists, I'm a big fan of Dinah Washington, although she jumped around between blues, jazz and pop, but she had a wonderful emotional edge to her singing (on the best songs) that reminded me a bit of Billie Holiday.  The First Issue compilation is a good overview of her Mercury years-- I'm not as fond of the pop stuff, but there is some other really fine material here. 


Back to the Blues was a pretty solid return to form after her emphasis on pop.  Nobody knows the Way I Feel this Morning is epic, IMO.


The Bessie Smith Songbook on the whole was pretty disappointing, and seems to be out of print.  The band sounded very hokey on purpose, but the cut Back Water Blues  really hooked me when I first heard it.  Your mileage may vary.

http://www.youtube.com/v/HoB_EP6vFzM



I'd agree about Holliday's later recordings, although the very raggedness of her singing in those sessions could be very compelling by itself.

She's more brilliant then Holiday but i think she is more shallow as well. I find Holiday to be more harmonically and rhythmically subtle.

[jowcol]

She's more brilliant then Holiday but i think she is more shallow as well. I find Holiday to be more harmonically and rhythmically subtle.

There's room for both on may shelf, but I must confess I don't care much for Washington's Pop stuff.

[Josquin des Prez]

I must confess i'm not really into Jazz singers. When i do listen to them, i tend to gravitate towards artists with a more "instrumental" approach, or artists that pair with good musicians.