Hiding in plain sight- Elgar's Enigma Solution

Started by nimrod, May 02, 2011, 11:37:20 AM

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nimrod

The first four notes of Elgar's Enigma Variations are scale degree 3-1-4-2, decimal Pi.  Elgar hinted at a "dark saying," which was from Sing a Song of Sixpence, "Four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie (Pi)".  Elgar was fond of jokes, nursery rhymes, and puns.  It is a perfect fit.  Additionally, he placed a most unusual double bar after the first "four and twenty" black notes, even though before the end of the first phrase.  He also worked in fractional Pi, 22/7, in the first four bars.  In 1929, Elgar hinted that the "drop of the seventh in bars 3 and 4 should be observed."  Those two sevenths are preceeded by exactly eleven notes.  11 x 2/7 = 22/7.  Elgar wrote the Enigma Variations in the year following the ludicrous Indiana Pi Bill of 1897 which attempted to legislated the value of Pi.  Elgar gets the last laugh. 

The first several measures can be seen on wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_variation, but the double bar is not shown.  You can see the double bar on f the original score at imslp.org/wiki/Variations_on_an_Original_Theme_

J.Z. Herrenberg

I thought the enigma was solved in another way. Elgar himself slily said: "The theme never returns". And the solution is in that 'never'. The enigma theme is connected with the 'never' in 'never never never shall be slaves' of 'Land of Hope and Glory'.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Scarpia

Quote from: nimrod on May 02, 2011, 11:37:20 AM
The first four notes of Elgar's Enigma Variations are scale degree 3-1-4-2, decimal Pi.  Elgar hinted at a "dark saying," which was from Sing a Song of Sixpence, "Four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie (Pi)".  Elgar was fond of jokes, nursery rhymes, and puns.  It is a perfect fit.  Additionally, he placed a most unusual double bar after the first "four and twenty" black notes, even though before the end of the first phrase.  He also worked in fractional Pi, 22/7, in the first four bars.  In 1929, Elgar hinted that the "drop of the seventh in bars 3 and 4 should be observed."  Those two sevenths are preceeded by exactly eleven notes.  11 x 2/7 = 22/7.  Elgar wrote the Enigma Variations in the year following the ludicrous Indiana Pi Bill of 1897 which attempted to legislated the value of Pi.  Elgar gets the last laugh. 

The first several measures can be seen on wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_variation, but the double bar is not shown.  You can see the double bar on f the original score at imslp.org/wiki/Variations_on_an_Original_Theme_

Seems a bit far fetched.  The fact that there are 24 notes before the double bar corresponds to "24 back birds baked in a pie" and pie is Pi.  Does every piece of music with 24 notes in the first strain also symbolize Pi?

snyprrr

Quote from: nimrod on May 02, 2011, 11:37:20 AM
The first four notes of Elgar's Enigma Variations are scale degree 3-1-4-2, decimal Pi.  Elgar hinted at a "dark saying," which was from Sing a Song of Sixpence, "Four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie (Pi)".  Elgar was fond of jokes, nursery rhymes, and puns.  It is a perfect fit.  Additionally, he placed a most unusual double bar after the first "four and twenty" black notes, even though before the end of the first phrase.  He also worked in fractional Pi, 22/7, in the first four bars.  In 1929, Elgar hinted that the "drop of the seventh in bars 3 and 4 should be observed."  Those two sevenths are preceeded by exactly eleven notes.  11 x 2/7 = 22/7.  Elgar wrote the Enigma Variations in the year following the ludicrous Indiana Pi Bill of 1897 which attempted to legislated the value of Pi.  Elgar gets the last laugh. 

The first several measures can be seen on wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_variation, but the double bar is not shown.  You can see the double bar on f the original score at imslp.org/wiki/Variations_on_an_Original_Theme_

Good work! ;) Very Kubrick, no?

nimrod

Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on May 02, 2011, 03:31:21 PM
Seems a bit far fetched.  The fact that there are 24 notes before the double bar corresponds to "24 back birds baked in a pie" and pie is Pi.  Does every piece of music with 24 notes in the first strain also symbolize Pi?
I have searched and found no other music that has 24 black notes followed by a double bar before the end of the first phrase.  Pi is found in three different ways in the first six bars.  Could that be coincidence?  Could it be coincidence that he wrote the enigma in the year following the Indiana Pi Bill of 1897?   It certainly seems like too many coincidences.  To me it appears intentional, especially when you look at Elgar's 1929 statement of three sentences, each having a hint at Pi, 22/7.

Octo_Russ

Interesting, but... there are other theories too,

A Mighty Fortress http://enigmathemeunmasked.blogspot.com/2010/09/elgars-dark-saying-musical-checkerboard.html, very interesting, Elgar loved complex cyphers, and it's in his music abundantly.

Rule Brittania http://www.stereophile.com/content/elgars-enigma though i don't go along with these theories.

Pi / Sing A Song Of Sixpence http://www.brightcecilia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3285 and of course the one proposed here.

Elgar actually believed the audience would easily solve it at its premiere, and kept up the Enigma when people could not get it.
I'm a Musical Octopus, I Love to get a Tentacle in every Genre of Music. http://octoruss.blogspot.com/

Brian

My personal solution to the Enigma, which is very simple but which I am (naturally) convinced of, is that Elgar's true theme was this little tune.

Archaic Torso of Apollo

One of the more boring theories is that it's actually a theme from the slow mvt. of Mozart's "Prague" Symphony (#38). The NY Times even published an article stating this some years ago. More likely a coincidence, as I can't imagine what significance this obscure set of notes would have for Elgar.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

(poco) Sforzando

#8
Quote from: nimrod on May 02, 2011, 11:37:20 AM
The first four notes of Elgar's Enigma Variations are scale degree 3-1-4-2, decimal Pi.  Elgar hinted at a "dark saying," which was from Sing a Song of Sixpence, "Four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie (Pi)".  Elgar was fond of jokes, nursery rhymes, and puns.  It is a perfect fit.  Additionally, he placed a most unusual double bar after the first "four and twenty" black notes, even though before the end of the first phrase.  He also worked in fractional Pi, 22/7, in the first four bars.  In 1929, Elgar hinted that the "drop of the seventh in bars 3 and 4 should be observed."  Those two sevenths are preceeded by exactly eleven notes.  11 x 2/7 = 22/7.  Elgar wrote the Enigma Variations in the year following the ludicrous Indiana Pi Bill of 1897 which attempted to legislated the value of Pi.  Elgar gets the last laugh. 

The first several measures can be seen on wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_variation, but the double bar is not shown.  You can see the double bar on f the original score at imslp.org/wiki/Variations_on_an_Original_Theme_

I suppose it's of no importance to your little theory that the value of pi, worked out just to the first 8 decimals, is 3.14159265, not 3.142, or that the double bar (2 thin parallel lines, as opposed to one thin and one thick) that so interests you is found not only after the theme, but after every variation, and serves solely as a demarcation between the sections. (Compare, for example, the finale of Beethoven's 9th, where the same || type of double bar is found between each section of the cantata.)
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Luke

#9
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on May 02, 2011, 02:45:25 PM
I thought the enigma was solved in another way. Elgar himself slily said: "The theme never returns". And the solution is in that 'never'. The enigma theme is connected with the 'never' in 'never never never shall be slaves' of 'Land of Hope and Glory'.

But if the Pi theory were correct (it's fun, I'll give it that!) 'the theme never returns' could just as well refer to the fact that the Pi itself never repeats, going on infinitely to the nth decimal place.

'Never never never shall be slaves' is in Rule Britannia, anyway, not Land of Hope and Glory. And it is indeed a sequence of rising thirds, though major minor, not minor major as in the Engimas.

Luke

Quote from: Velimir on May 03, 2011, 03:40:19 AM
One of the more boring theories is that it's actually a theme from the slow mvt. of Mozart's "Prague" Symphony (#38). The NY Times even published an article stating this some years ago. More likely a coincidence, as I can't imagine what significance this obscure set of notes would have for Elgar.

I vaguely recall, years ago, hearing that Elgar had been to a performance of the Prague shortly before starting work on the Enigmas. But I may be misremembering.

Brian

Quote from: Luke on May 03, 2011, 04:40:52 AM
I vaguely recall, years ago, hearing that Elgar had been to a performance of the Prague shortly before starting work on the Enigmas. But I may be misremembering.

The tale I vaguely recall is that the Prague symphony was, in fact, on the same programme as the very first performance of Enigma.

(poco) Sforzando

Quote from: Luke on May 03, 2011, 04:39:02 AM
'Never never never shall be slaves' is in Rule Britannia, anyway, not Land of Hope and Glory. And it is indeed a sequence of rising thirds, though major minor, not minor major as in the Engimas.

The line "Never, never, never, never, never" also occurs in the final act of King Lear, signifying beyond doubt that Shakespeare had the Enigma Variations in mind when he wrote that tragedy.
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Luke


J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Luke on May 03, 2011, 04:39:02 AM
But if the Pi theory were correct (it's fun, I'll give it that!) 'the theme never returns' could just as well refer to the fact that the Pi itself never repeats, going on infinitely to the nth decimal place.

'Never never never shall be slaves' is in Rule Britannia, anyway, not Land of Hope and Glory. And it is indeed a sequence of rising thirds, though major minor, not minor major as in the Engimas.


D'oh! Of course...  :o
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on May 03, 2011, 05:15:04 AM
The line "Never, never, never, never, never" also occurs in the final act of King Lear, signifying beyond doubt that Shakespeare had the Enigma Variations in mind when he wrote that tragedy.


He remains a prophetic writer.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Scarpia

Quote from: nimrod on May 03, 2011, 02:14:49 AM
I have searched and found no other music that has 24 black notes followed by a double bar before the end of the first phrase.  Pi is found in three different ways in the first six bars.  Could that be coincidence?  Could it be coincidence that he wrote the enigma in the year following the Indiana Pi Bill of 1897?   It certainly seems like too many coincidences.  To me it appears intentional, especially when you look at Elgar's 1929 statement of three sentences, each having a hint at Pi, 22/7.

The second minuet of Bach's English suite no 4 has 24 black notes before the double bar.  Besides that, what evidence is there that the "dark saying" is "tell a tale of sixpence?" 

71 dB

Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on May 03, 2011, 04:02:41 AM
I suppose it's of no importance to your little theory that the value of pi, worked out just to the first 8 decimals, is 3.14159265, not 3.142.

But if you round pi to 3 decimals, you get 3.142 ( |pi - 3.142| < |pi - 3.141| ) .
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nimrod

Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on May 03, 2011, 06:08:24 AM
The second minuet of Bach's English suite no 4 has 24 black notes before the double bar.  Besides that, what evidence is there that the "dark saying" is "tell a tale of sixpence?"

An excellent question.  The defining difference is that Bach's double bar comes at the end of a phrase, but Elgar's is inserted for no apparent reason, except to deliniate that the 24 black notes have an enigmatic significance.  The line from "sixpence" also has a pun about Pi which is very Elgar as he was known to be fond of nursery rhymes and puns.

Scarpia

Quote from: nimrod on May 03, 2011, 11:44:28 AM
An excellent question.  The defining difference is that Bach's double bar comes at the end of a phrase, but Elgar's is inserted for no apparent reason, except to deliniate that the 24 black notes have an enigmatic significance.  The line from "sixpence" also has a pun about Pi which is very Elgar as he was known to be fond of nursery rhymes and puns.

I will not claim that this theory can be disproved, but it relies on the pretence that various capricious associations are obvious or unambiguous.  The double bar, for instance, marks the end of the first strain of the melody seems perfectly normal to me, I see numerous instances of double bars at similar points in the score, such as on page 4.  The assumption that the "dark saying" is "Sing a song of sixpence" strikes me as entirely arbitrary.  The fact that the two descending sevenths mean 11 times 2 divided by 7 seems equally capricious.  The most convincing argument to me is that people who knew Elgar at the were absolutely sure that the "enigma" was a musical theme which could be played as a counter-melody to the played theme.    With that assumption all of the statements which the Pi theory interpret in some mysterious, symbolic manner, are correct in their normal sense.