Make a Jazz Noise Here

[jowcol]

You remind me of a 4th-rate version of Stanley Crouch for some reason. I could invest a lot of time going through each word & statement you have made in this thread and tear you a new asshole but i dont have the time nor energy; and it ultimately would be a huge waste.

The "I could invest a lot of time... don't have the time or energy " theme has been documented before.  I have  a B-7 for that!

[jowcol]

I consider this group the culmination of Miles' work, and as a player, this book is the most challenging and hence the most fun to play.  It may be that it is more fun for the musicians than the audience, I don't know, but I do know that these tunes have the most interesting harmonic progressions and melodic arcs and forms, and guys have to know a lot more than just their instruments in order to pull these songs off.  I find it very engaging - much more so than late Coltrane, for example.

I can see why.   A lot of people I respect love that band.

[Mn Dave]

I call this thread "Fighting About Jazz." 

[jowcol]

Venerable Nagasena, Pfft! 

While binaristic, categorical thinking has its practical pitfalls (and spiritual ones--read some Zen texts for memorable warnings), the beauty of it is that it ideally acts as not as a tool with which to beat one's neighbor over the head, but rather a spur to further investigation and reexamination: "X is Y" "Well, are we sure about what Y is in the first place? Did we pay careful enough attention to X the first time around. Let's investigate and maybe come to appreciate both X and Y more fully."

Or, as Chang Tsu put it--

"To take a finger in illustration of a finger not being a finger is not so good as to take something which is not a finger to illustrate that a finger is not a finger. To take a horse in illustration of a horse not being a horse is not so good as to take something which is not a horse to illustrate that a horse is not a horse. So with the universe which is but a finger, but a horse. The possible is possible: the impossible is impossible. Tao operates, and the given results follow; things receive names and are said to be what they are. Why are they so? They are said to be so! Why are they not so? They are said to be not so! Things are so by themselves and have possibilities by themselves. There is nothing which is not so and there is nothing which may not become so. "

[jowcol]

I'm in pfffft heaven here.

Pfffft Nirvana for me. This is taking on the level of a Homeric epic...

[Grazioso]

I call this thread "Fighting About Jazz." 

http://www.youtube.com/v/WvufFwdqMzg

[karlhenning]

I call this thread "Fighting About Jazz." 

I dig.

[jowcol]

I dig.

I resent your digging that.  If I had the energy, I'd tear you a new one!

[Grazioso]

I resent your digging that.  If I had the energy, I'd tear you a new one!

If I wanted to, I could say "Pfft!" 

[Grazioso]

Branford Marsalis is a great sax player, but suffers from being overshadowed by his younger brother Wynton.

An interesting one from Branford, with Bob Hurst and Jeff "Tain" Watts, is the live album



Same trio, different gig:

http://www.youtube.com/v/CPEgesK0KKQ

[Grazioso]

Yeh, that is his regular working rhythm section, and that live thing is smoking.  I really like a piano-less trio and have several things by a variety of sax players in that format.  Marsalis though, seems to like it more than most.

Which is good for us.

He's one brave man to play his style of music with no harmonic support beyond the bass--some crazy stuff on "Bloomington." Agreed on Watts, whose debut leader album I talked about a few pages back: a monster drummer who never ceases to interest.

***

Back to the categorization of jazz (groans from the audience), here's an interesting piece addressing the validity and wisdom of calling jazz "America's classical music" (or, as Rahsaan used to say, "black classical music")

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/02/28/arts/music-don-t-call-jazz-america-s-classical-music.html?src=pm

The author discusses the shared serious of purpose and extreme demands on the musicians, but goes on to note the fundamental differences. A few quotes:

And both call for their performers and listeners to be mature, emotionally if not chronologically: to have long attention spans, to understand depth and nuance.

But for jazz musicians, the underlying structure is less important than what happens to it on the bandstand.

Jazz is as complex, intelligent, passionate and profound as classical music; we know that now. Far from having to borrow status from classical music, it should get respect on its own very different terms.

[Grazioso]

Grazioso, that second quote is what I've been saying in this thread for a while: that the written sections are mainly there for the players to interpret with their improvisation, and don't have much significance on their own. 

I'm pretty much with you there. Lots of jazz tunes have beautiful changes and catchy melodies or grooves--and those shouldn't be denied or downplayed, but rather celebrated--yet they're not the chief point of the music.

Some guys like Monk or Shorter were able to write very interesting tunes that were also great vehicles for soloing - but that's the point, the main thing that makes a jazz head great is how flexible it is and how much it excites the creativity of the players for soloing.

Right. Look at how the Rhythm changes got co-opted and altered to make countless other tunes. It's not the original melody or words that are important to instrumental jazz, but rather what can be spontaneously created with that harmonic scaffold.

[jowcol]

If I wanted to, I could say "Pfft!" 

Ahh, grasshopper, it is the sound of the pfft! not spoken, much like the sound of one hand clapping that is the portal to ultimate enlightenment.

[Grazioso]

Ahh, grasshopper, it is the sound of the pfft! not spoken, much like the sound of one hand clapping that is the portal to ultimate enlightenment.

No man, no ox, no Pfft!
The ten thousand cliches vanish.
Just this.

[jowcol]

No man, no ox, no Pfft!
The ten thousand cliches vanish.
Just this.

Nice reference to the "Ten Bulls"   I particularly like the end of the series when, after encountering the void (GMG?), the main character returns to "reality"


Barefooted and naked of breast, I mingle with the people of the world.
My clothes are ragged and dust-laden, and I am ever blissful.
I use no magic to extend my life;
Now, before me, the dead trees become alive.

Unfortunately, many of us are still bound to the world for tags, suffering from a "fungus on our thinking". How many of us are willing throw ourselves headfirst into the spotless white void and surrender our umbilical attachment to McDonalds, which is just another disguise for the enslavement to Maya and endless rebirths in Samsara?





Few are even willing to start the journey of 10,000 steps to enlightenment, or as our resident sage has put it..

but your not ready. You're too consumed with a lot of nonsense.

The tragic truth is, our consumerism consumes US.

[Grazioso]

Branford is a much hipper musician than his brother, neither are "great", they aren't doing anything  "great" ..their heroes were "great" .. not them ..  if what they have done hadn't existed we wouldn't be missing anything. Can't say the same about their "heroes".

great depth and breadth of art music
without tags or labels
I don't have time to explain it to you
Pfft! [save for later]
their heroes were great, not them [ok]

[Grazioso]

Unfortunately, many of us are still bound to the world for tags, suffering from a "fungus on our thinking". How many of us are willing throw ourselves headfirst into the spotless white void and surrender our umbilical attachment to McDonalds, which is just another disguise for the enslavement to Maya and endless rebirths in Samsara?

My sword flashes across the black sky,
Ten thousand cheeseburgers cut in half,
I leap into the void.

[jowcol]

background fodder (aka Grazioso)

And if one meditates and listens hard enough, one can hear the whispering of void....

[Grazioso]

New Mosaic box coming out that looks to be very good.  Reviewed here:

The Modern Jazz Quartet: The Complete Atlantic Studio Recordings 1956-64

I have the MJQ complete Pablo/Prestige box and can certainly recommend that.

Mosaic is frustrating: great music, but issued as crazily overpriced limited editions

[Grazioso]

Btw, Leon, I believe you mentioned Chris Potter recently. You might want to check out this fine Miles-influenced album on which he appears: