Make a Jazz Noise Here

[Grazioso]

Grazioso - I found a site that might be right up your alley.  I found it from another forum that included a reference to this post on Parker's quoting from classical music, and found a treasure trove (dependant on the quality of the blogger's knowledge and talents) of jazz anaylsis:

Charlie Parker's Western Classical Music Quotations & Decorated Enclosure in Bebop Improvisation

Cool. Thanks. I'd heard the famous story of how when Stravinsky showed up for a Bird gig, Parker incorporated part of The Firebird into "Koko," much to the composer's glee.

[Grazioso]

Lots of talk of Miles recently in this thread, but iirc, this classic hasn't been discussed:



I always think of this as a sort of unofficial supplement to the First Great Quintet/Sextet recordings, thanks to the presence of both Miles and Cannonball, and Miles's obvious hand in the arrangements. Of which, this one features some of the cooler arrangements of "Autumn Leaves" and "Love for Sale" you're likely to encounter.

Quite a contrast between the two principals: Miles relatively spare, brooding, and brittle and Cannonball inherently funky and ebullient, with his rapid-fire legato swoops and swells.

The unearthed bonus track, "Bangoon" is cool, too, falling in the grey area between bop and hard bop and giving Blakey a chance to shine--this is so his type of piece.

One wonders what would have happened if Miles ended up as a long-time Blue Note artist...

http://www.youtube.com/v/-Q8ngQmr8wQ

[jowcol]

Yeh, I am aware of at least the All About Jazz Forum, but don't post much there because I don't like the software - there are some good folks posting though and can be a good read.   I find out about a lot of good new music from those places. 

Re: posting here - I usually try to include something, either my own thoughts or a snip from a review that talks about the music and why it is worth checking out.  But, there is a limit to how much one can talk about the music before it gets bogged down in semantics or the inability to capture a quality easily heard in the music but impossible to describe.  This is true of all music not just jazz, though.

I heard that the Miles Listserve was a highly dysfunctional one that would definitely make this one look like the 8th Wonder of the world.  The Trane list serve was pretty civil-- but I lost touch after changing computers a few times.  And yes, your observation is accurate in about every music-related list-serv and discussion group I've been on.

[jowcol]

Oh, man, where to begin? Off the top of my head:

Piano
Monk
Silver
Evans
Brubeck
Hancock
Tyner
Wasilewski
Jason Moran
Sun Ra

Bass
Carter
Haden
Reid Anderson (Bad Plus) --what I've heard of him

Drums
Blakey
Roach
Higgins
Williams
Jeff Watts

Vibes
Jackson
Hutcherson
Hampton

Trumpet
Morgan
Brownie
Hubbard
Byrd
Diz
Miles (more as a bandleader and catalyst)
Stanko
Tom Harrell
Dave Douglas

Sax (lumping them together, shame on me)
Henderson
Shorter
Gordon
Kirk
Rollins
Trane
Adderley
O. Coleman
Desmond
Getz
Ayler

Trombone
Johnson
Fuller

Guitar
Burrell
Green
Montgomery
Hall

As you can see, my main area of interest is mid 50's through mid 60's small-combo jazz.

That's a great list-- I'd add Jimmy Garrison to the bassists, and Elvin Jones would be my favorite drummer bar none.

[jowcol]

Listening to this album this morning.  WOnderful range of color, and the mixture of a hypnotic groove a la the "acknowledgement" from a Love Supreme, and  some of the most off-the-hook chaotic ecstasy this side of Messaien. 

[Grazioso]

.. without good composing the music is a nonstarter & narrow .. just mechanical cliches, patterns and noodling like most "jazz" is, most of it really isn't true improvising either. A lot of it is the same and narrow.

What you want is derivative comfort zone stuff that's been done ad nauseum and is so behind the curve and null and void creatively .. whenever someone explores or does something different, that defies category, or expands or blurs the boundaries; it's not your thing at all.

He wanted to learn more to feed his creativity to advance his art. Playing bop won't do that, he was tired of doing that boring old shit and stood in awe of people like Varese. Playing bop is meaningless these days too, and totally simplistic and uncreative. And all serious musicians draw from that rich art music legacy to advance themselves, it's absolutely essential .. most are fully aware that their simplistic tootles can't compare .. thus seek advancement ..

Yawn. First post in this thread from you in a few days and, surprise, it's the same mechanical cliches, patterns and noodling.

[Grazioso]

That's a great list-- I'd add Jimmy Garrison to the bassists, and Elvin Jones would be my favorite drummer bar none.

See, I knew I'd forget someone major  Definitely a big thumbs-up to both those guys.

[Mirror Image]

.. I've never heard that early Zawinul effort, .. Absolute Zawinul is refreshing in a landscape of mediocrity and sameness that is a narrow popular music form such as jazz, .. but Zawinul transcended that and was in a class all by himself .. he and WR are beyond category, nothing was like it before or since; so much great stuff on all levels ..

Please...

[Grazioso]

http://www.youtube.com/v/jNBNqUdqm1E

[escher]

Check out the incomparable Jaco Pastorius .. he is to the bass guitar, what Hendrix is to the electric guitar in terms of importance, originality & influence. Listen to the WR albums. Revolutionary.

I was talking of double bass, but speaking of electric bass i don't like him too much, he's never been one of my favorites. There are things that are really good but he tended to show his virtuosism everywhere and often gratuitously .

[Bogey]

Today, spun this 4-5 times through:



John Coltrane — tenor saxophone
Johnny Splawn — trumpet on "Bakai," "Straight Street," "While My Lady Sleeps," "Chronic Blues"
Sahib Shihab — baritone saxophone on "Bakai," "Straight Street," "Chronic Blues"
Mal Waldron — piano
Red Garland — piano ....some of the best I have heard from him?
Paul Chambers — bass................outstanding, as always
Albert "Tootie" Heath — drums

Not sure who else here has this 1957 one on the shelf.  I believe it is his first as the leader.  Starts off with Bakai,which, IMO Trane tries to move out a bit too far at the start and finish, but the majority is very fresh.  The third cut, Time Was, seems like it would be a perfect fit on album Blue Train.  So, if you enjoy that one, this cut is worth having (10 bones for a 'Trane take is cheap IMO ).  The last selection, Chronic Blues, presents shadows of things to come from 'Trane.  You can just sense the explosion here.

[Mirror Image]

Today, spun this 4-5 times through:



John Coltrane — tenor saxophone
Johnny Splawn — trumpet on "Bakai," "Straight Street," "While My Lady Sleeps," "Chronic Blues"
Sahib Shihab — baritone saxophone on "Bakai," "Straight Street," "Chronic Blues"
Mal Waldron — piano
Red Garland — piano ....some of the best I have heard from him?
Paul Chambers — bass................outstanding, as always
Albert "Tootie" Heath — drums

Not sure who else here has this 1957 one on the shelf.  I believe it is his first as the leader.  Starts off with Bakai,which, IMO Trane tries to move out a bit too far at the start and finish, but the majority is very fresh.  The third cut, Time Was, seems like it would be a perfect fit on album Blue Train.  So, if you enjoy that one, this cut is worth having (10 bones for a 'Trane take is cheap IMO ).  The last selection, Chronic Blues, presents shadows of things to come from 'Trane.  You can just sense the explosion here.

I own all of Trane's Prestige albums. This is a very good recording indeed. I love the early Trane recordings before he went off the deep end.

[Bogey]

I own all of Trane's Prestige albums. This is a very good recording indeed. I love the early Trane recordings before he went off the deep end.

KevinP classifies the end stuff as "very late" 'Trane.  I agree, he loses me as well.   I do not have much after '65, so that might be the cut-off year, but would like to explore into the earlier part of this time period. 

[escher]

Gimme a break, and Trane or Bird didn't? They were HUGE wankers,  .. most "jazz" is just that gratuitous soloing & often, based around displays of virtuosity  .. hours and hours of that, over and over  .. not WR tho, they had variety, restraint and taste.

if you really think that Pastorius is a greater musician than Coltrane and Parker, well, i don't really know what to say. Yes often in jazz there's gratuitous virtuosism, but it's the jazz that i don't like. There's also jazz that is about music, subtlesness and interplay and not just protagonism (Allan Holdsworth vs Ed Bickert? The second all the time, and i know that holdsworth is a monster. The second is a monster too, but he always plays for the music with great understatement). I'm not saying that Pastorius wasn't a great bassist and that he didn't make good music,  and clearly i've nothing against great solos and virtuosism, but i hear the difference between a Coltrane (who often played for too long, but that's another story) looking for the trance and a musician just looking for an applause.

By the way, though i recognize his historical importance in the use of effects, distortion and feedback, i think that Hendrix is a bit overrated

[escher]

Blue Haze on a '50s Prestige Miles Davis date  with Percy Heath is a blues number that begins with just the bass walking, very easy to hear the walking line and very good to get an idea of the role of the bass in a jazz group.  Laying down a solid line outlining the harmony so that the piano can play accents.

http://www.youtube.com/v/6EdhdMC3svQ

The Bill Evans Live at the Village Vanguard with Scottie LaFaro is classic - again, no problem hearing the bass.  This is a more expansive style for the bass, playing much more than a walking line, and was one of the first to break the bass out of the traditional role.

Some piano-less trios are good for hearing the bass, Sonny Rollins Live at the Vanguard with Wilbur Ware is great.  Paul Chambers has a few records as a leader, Bass on Top & Whims Of Chambers which are both great and highlight the bass.  Ron Carter with Miles' quintet from 1965-1967, or more especially the My Funny Valentine live at Carnegie Hall date, that song in particular has some great bass playing (I don't care for his CTI recordings as much since the sound of his bass is somewhat artificial and processed, but the playing is good.).  Dave Holland has a number of CDs as leader.

Once you get used to listening for the bass, it becomes easier to hear it.  At a live performance the bass sounds best from about fifty feet from the stage, and for listening at home, you need a good set of speakers that have a big low end, not volumes so much as producing the frequency range of the bass with clarity and punch.

http://www.youtube.com/v/J14E-XcleEs

http://www.youtube.com/v/Aib_RL_x7PA

http://www.youtube.com/v/L2Omlufc2rw

http://www.youtube.com/v/P5SqOdXxPho

thank you, i've yet listened to all those albums years ago when i was starting listening to jazz but now probably i'm listening with different ears

[karlhenning]

Monk's Dream has been making for a lovely morning.  Of course, the weather is cooperating, too . . . .

[Grazioso]

Today, spun this 4-5 times through:

FYI, you can get all his Prestige leader dates as part of this nice box set, Fearless Leader:



Big, informative book included.

[Bogey]

FYI, you can get all his Prestige leader dates as part of this nice box set, Fearless Leader:



Big, informative book included.

Thanks!  Any extras on that?  I have a decent size collection of 'Trane and would have to look first at what would be repeated before buying.

[Bogey]

Monk's Dream has been making for a lovely morning.  Of course, the weather is cooperating, too . . . .

Did you catch this post of mine, Karl?:

For your Monkconsideration:

http://www.npr.org/2011/06/29/137495438/thelonious-monk-making-the-piano-hum

[karlhenning]

Good morning, Bill! I'll be sure to check that link out shortly.