Make a Jazz Noise Here

[bhodges]

Leon, thanks so much for posting this! I had no idea that anyone was broadcasting these concerts. And after reading reviews this week as well as blog posts from friends, I've been wishing I could be there.

Just looked at the menu, and yikes, a concert by Trombone Shorty, whom I last saw in Washington on New Year's Day - an amazing young player with an excellent band.

Anyway, thanks again.

--Bruce

[jowcol]

Yawn. First post in this thread from you in a few days and, surprise, it's the same mechanical cliches, patterns and noodling.

I must take exception to that.  If you could free yourself from your mental prisons, shake loose that mental fungus, you would see a truly revolutionary artist that has raised "did not" - "did too!" to an art form worth of Plato's Dialogs for the 21st Century.

You're in way over your head.  It's transparent to the rest of us.

[Grazioso]

I must take exception to that.  If you could free yourself from your mental prisons, shake loose that mental fungus, you would see a truly revolutionary artist that has raised "did not" - "did too!" to an art form worth of Plato's Dialogs for the 21st Century.

You're in way over your head.  It's transparent to the rest of us.

Dood, whatever, pfft! Go listen to your cliche jazz noodling and then compare it to Weather Report. Then you will see the great depth and breadth of the art music database. Every real artist really aspires to it. Because it's real. And I don't have time to explain it to you. But I do have time to say again that it has great depth and breadth and no labels or categories, either, because those limit the great artists from greatness. Because.

Just listen to "Birdland" already, get a grip. Jaco could walk on water. Zawinul's farts smelled like roses. You just go on with your limited narrow cliche jazz and see how limited and narrow it is. 

[Grazioso]

Thanks!  Any extras on that?  I have a decent size collection of 'Trane and would have to look first at what would be repeated before buying.

None, afaik, just all the tracks from the leader sessions, previously issued as 11 separate albums, with remastered sound. But you do get all of it for a good price, plus a 64-page color book with essays, notes, and data on Trane's life, the musicians, the recording sessions, album cover art, original liner notes, etc.

[Grazioso]

Spent most of today, so far, listening to Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers.  I started out with the LPs that had Lee Morgan and Wayne Shorter in the group, A Night in Tunisia, Meet You at the Jazz Corner of the World, but then just grabbed anything no matter the personnel.
...
Take away: for what ails you jazzwise - help yourself to a nice dose of Art Blakey.

Amen! I'm also a big Blakey/Messengers fan. He was an awesome drummer, co-founder and promulgator of the hard bop style, talent scout extraordinaire... Fortunately, they were a very well-documented band during their heyday, with a lot of great live albums. Their recordings from Paris are really special:


etc.

NB, many of these concerts have been issued by different labels over the years, so do your research to avoid duplication. There are extensive Blakey discographies online.

[jowcol]

Dood, whatever, pfft! Go listen to your cliche jazz noodling and then compare it to Weather Report. Then you will see the great depth and breadth of the art music database. Every real artist really aspires to it. Because it's real. And I don't have time to explain it to you. But I do have time to say again that it has great depth and breadth and no labels or categories, either, because those limit the great artists from greatness. Because.

Just listen to "Birdland" already, get a grip. Jaco could walk on water. Zawinul's farts smelled like roses. You just go on with your limited narrow cliche jazz and see how limited and narrow it is.

Feel out of your depth?  Narrow?  Trapped in a Mental prison?  Can't hear music because of tags?  Your worries will soon be over!

I think I've invented the killer app.  And just the thing must of us really need during those unhappy times when James simply isn't posting enough.  I now present, the James Bingo Card Generator:



For any of you who wish to have an inexhaustible supply of these precious keepsakes and entertaining gaming aids, or a just lonely for some of the collected wisdom of Chairman James, this will be the only product you will ever need.  It has 120 of his most timeless phrases, insights, and conversational gambits. 
Unfortunately, you will need to own Microsoft Excel in order to play.

If you have it, merely download the following file:
http://tinyurl.com/4x8pw8w

Once you have, open it.  Turn to sheet 2.  Press the F9 button to recalculate and generate completely new James Bingo card-- each one a work of art.  Be prepared to be staggered by the infinite, as there are 500 quindecillion  (5.17013 * 10 ⁵⁰ possible combinations, so that each bingo card you hold has the priceless rarity of a snowflake, but unlike a snow flake, your card will be inscribed with 25 invaluable quotations from the world's greatest authority on EVERYTHING.   I would suggest you have them laminated as keepsakes for future generations.

For those of you aren't fortunate enough of have Excel, perhaps you need to go steal it.  No court of law would be hard-hearted enough to deny you access to the best life has to offer.  But, if you still can't get a copy, here is a starter set.







Remember-- when you are playing James Bingo, EVERYBODY WINS! 

[Mirror Image]

KevinP classifies the end stuff as "very late" 'Trane.  I agree, he loses me as well.   I do not have much after '65, so that might be the cut-off year, but would like to explore into the earlier part of this time period.

Well then get the Prestige box sets of Coltrane. These three sets contain every session he's played on whether as a leader or sideman for Prestige:

[asin]B000H30CBM[/asin]

[asin]B000ULQVCA[/asin]

[asin]B002N57XBO[/asin]

[jowcol]

KevinP classifies the end stuff as "very late" 'Trane.  I agree, he loses me as well.   I do not have much after '65, so that might be the cut-off year, but would like to explore into the earlier part of this time period.

My favorite period is the "classic quartet" from 1960-63.  If you haven't already dug into that period (From My Favorite Things up to A Love Supreme) I could definitely toss out suggestions.

[Grazioso]

Feel out of your depth?  Narrow?  Trapped in a Mental prison?  Can't hear music because of tags?  Your worries will soon be over!

I think I've invented the killer app.  And just the thing must of us really need during those unhappy times when James simply isn't posting enough.  I now present, the James Bingo Card Generator:

James Jeopardy

--Alex, I'd like "Heavy Weather Report" for $200, please.
--Answer: 70's synthesizers, electric bass wanking, and serious art music composition without cliches or labels
--[buzzer sounds] Ooh, ooh! I know! What is Weather Report?
--Oh, sorry, the question is, "What is lame?"
--Pfft, whatever dood! You can keep your narrow quiz-show cliches!

[Grazioso]

My favorite period is the "classic quartet" from 1960-63.  If you haven't already dug into that period (From My Favorite Things up to A Love Supreme) I could definitely toss out suggestions.

What's your take on his Atlantic years, overall?

[Grazioso]

Any love for Rahsaan Roland Kirk?



One of the great cult figures of jazz. Blind from childhood, he was literally a multi-instrumentalist, capable not merely of playing a dozen or so instruments, but of playing multiple instruments at the same time (while humming along). The guy was basically a one-man reed section, harmonizing with himself, and using circular breathing to play for long uninterrupted stretches.

He never neatly fit into any musical category, and was sometimes dismissed as some sort of vaudeville freak show, but the man could play and had a strong grasp of jazz history and other black music idioms, like soul and R&B. (His later records incorporate more and more tunes from guys like Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye.) He was particularly fond of Trane, and would often play tunes associated with him.

Plus, he was funny as hell and the master of surreal, attention-grabbing statements: "When I die..I want to be cremated, put in a bag of pot and I want beautiful people to smoke me and hope they got something out of it"

Here he is late in his life, with McCoy Tyner:

http://www.youtube.com/v/tiI2ZHmxPPo

_{Dig the "My Favorite Things" quote at 2:30}

[Mirror Image]

My honest assessment of Coltrane was he was one of the great improvisers of jazz but his saxophone tone leaves much to be desired. Give me Getz, Desmond, Golson, Gryce, or Mobley any day. I know they might not be considered as "great" as Coltrane, but I their sound appeals to me more. This said, I still enjoy the early Coltrane output, especially those early Verve recordings with his classic quartet.

[Grazioso]

Hmm, his tone is one of the main things I like about his playing.  But, so what?  Each person responds to music in a personal way and nobody's response is more valid than the next person's.

Ditto here. It's immediately recognizable and overwhelmingly powerful. That said, neither it, nor his intensely methodical improvisation style (think "Giant Steps") work in every situation. I was trying to listen to The Avant-Garde with him and Don Cherry, and he felt tentative and out of place. Compare the crackling electricity of the Cherry/Coleman records and those guys' speech-like approach and conventionally "bad" tones.

[Bogey]

My favorite period is the "classic quartet" from 1960-63.  If you haven't already dug into that period (From My Favorite Things up to A Love Supreme) I could definitely toss out suggestions.

Love this period....like I posted, it is in 1965 that he tends to lose me.  However, my second all time favorite Coltrane album is One Down, One Up, Live at the Half Note so the 1965 date cannot be considered a hard cut-off. 



As for my favorite, it is John Coltrane at Birdland 1962 (on the Charly Label and not to be confused with the 1963 recording):

[Bogey]

Ditto here. It's immediately recognizable and overwhelmingly powerful. That said, neither it, nor his intensely methodical improvisation style (think "Giant Steps") work in every situation. I was trying to listen to The Avant-Garde with him and Don Cherry, and he felt tentative and out of place. Compare the crackling electricity of the Cherry/Coleman records and those guys' speech-like approach and conventionally "bad" tones.

I actually enjoy this one quite a bit.

[jowcol]

Sounds like you're talking out of your ass without hearing much.

YOU GO, GIRL!!

[jowcol]

What's your take on his Atlantic years, overall?

I'm a big fan-  particularly starting with My Favorite Things.   

Giant Steps has some tracks I admire more than like, I'll confess,

My Favorite Things-- the title track is a must, IMO. It's about as iconic as you can get, and I adore McCoy's solo.  I'm a bit disappointed with the take on Summertime.  It strikes me a a bit noodly.

Africa Brass:  I love this album-- the big band arrangements using McCoy's comping works for me.  In the LP days, I had to observe the the outtake version of Greensleeves (released on Africa Brass Vol 2), blew away the one that was released. 

Ole: Live the title track and twin basses.  Elvin is insane.  Also, Dahomey Dance is an underrated work, and McCoy had more writing on this one.

Coltrane's Sound:  This was an album of leftovers released in 65.  James and I discussed it many pages back.  I agree with him that if you are looking for more variety, and less groove, this may be the best Atlantic album.  And the song Equinox is one of my very favorite tunes by the classic quartet.

I must admit that I haven't spend as much time with "Plays the Blues"-- nothing there didn't grab me.

[jowcol]

Pastorius was a far greater musician than you understand, if you think he was just about virtuosity. Sounds like you're talking out of your ass without hearing much. Just listen to the recordings he left behind .. he certainly was more of a 'team-player' than a 'star pitcher'. Trane in comparison on the other hand? Hmmm

And Trane rips just as much as Holdsworth does - but to jump to the conclusion that these unique players were just about 'that' minus any subtlety,interplay,personal invention etc. is just flat out dumb & false.

Trane did give a lot of time to the sidemen, which I'd consider being a team player, and the iterations of his classic quartet showed that he had a certain ensemble sound he was looking for.  But I'd also say that he was more like Miles in that he was assembling players and trying to be a catalyst more than any systematic arranging.

Personally, I'd give Trane pretty  high marks for interplay (some of his duets with Elvin or Rashied, for example),  but not much for subtlety, or dynamics. 

As far as any apples to oranges comparisons to Jaco, I'd have to do the GMG thing and choose "Banana"

[jowcol]

My honest assessment of Coltrane was he was one of the great improvisers of jazz but his saxophone tone leaves much to be desired. Give me Getz, Desmond, Golson, Gryce, or Mobley any day. I know they might not be considered as "great" as Coltrane, but I their sound appeals to me more. This said, I still enjoy the early Coltrane output, especially those early Verve recordings with his classic quartet.

As they say, YMMV.  (Your mileage may vary).  As I've mentioned a couple times, what I love most about the classic quartet is the interply between Tyner and Elvin..  I have to confess that it took me longer to pay attention to Trane's solos, and I definitely listen more for his meldodic/rhythmic invention than tone.

[jowcol]

Ditto here. It's immediately recognizable and overwhelmingly powerful. That said, neither it, nor his intensely methodical improvisation style (think "Giant Steps") work in every situation. I was trying to listen to The Avant-Garde with him and Don Cherry, and he felt tentative and out of place. Compare the crackling electricity of the Cherry/Coleman records and those guys' speech-like approach and conventionally "bad" tones.

Agreed on that album-- it never really grabbed me.