Favorite 3 Bruckner Symphonies

[Lisztianwagner]

I voted for No.3, No.5 and No.8; but the Fourth "Romantic", the Seventh and the Ninth come very close, Bruckner's symphonies are very beautiful!! 

I especially love Karajan's recordings of Bruckner Symphonies, so gorgeous!!

Ilaria

[Sergeant Rock]

If I were to split 'em into tiers I would go:

Tier 1: 4, 5, 7, 8, 9
Tier 2: 3, 6
Tier 3: 00, 0, 1, 2

Mine would be a little different:

Tier 1:  0, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
Tier 2:  1
Tier 3:  00

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Sara, I don't consider the finale of any of his symphonies to be a total success, nor any other of his movements.

Oh, David...such a kidder. You crack me up.

Sarge

[Renfield]

I also don't think Bruckner's movements are anything less than a total success, in the late symphonies.

Unless by 'total success' one were to mean some kind of cosmic, axiomatic, mathematical level of perfection.


Re: the 7th, I actually find the finale just right, but not primarily because of its formal accomplishment.

There's obviously that whole reinvention of the small theme into the big theme, plus all the usual Bruckner architectonics; but what I love most about the 7th, which may actually be my favourite Bruckner symphony, is the tenderness that pervades its thematic material, of which the finale is such an 'obvious' kind of Wagner-awkward apotheosis that it serves to reinforce the very vulnerability which Bruckner is desperately trying to transform into all-conquering strength.

In that sense, I guess I can see what you mean by it not being a total success for Bruckner, but it is a total success for me!


Edit: Important correction.

[Lethevich]

While I could maybe fuss about some of the works (but not all that much), the 9th in particular I can't think of a single out of place note. In the case of the 8th, I'd have preferred the first movement to be twice as long.

One thing that intrigues me about late Bruckner is not which movements he chooses to make long, but which he keeps short - the first movement of the 8th, the finale of the 7th. I can't help but imagine the possible extremes of this - an 8th with a first movement as long as the 9th, or the 7th with a shorter adagio and a 13 minute opening movement like the following symphony. Chamber Bruckner? It is interesting how he never really extends his movements for the sake of it, there is always something holding back, or keeping a given symphony in check - any largesse is for expressive purposes where needed.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Interesting observations, Sara. Especially about No. 8. That first movement is rather short, yes, and - an absolute favourite of mine. The shortness makes the piece the more brutal and tragic. The Adagio, on the other hand, is almost too extended in its mystic-erotic yearning. And the Finale, too, seems to want to exorcise the trauma of the first movement through sheer length.

[Sergeant Rock]

To the No.7 fans - do you consider the finale to be a total success, or do you enjoy the work despite that? I find that the front-heavy aspect of the 7th makes the work less satisfactory than the surrounding ones.

I view it as his "Classical" symphony, balanced like Haydn and Mozart and the Eroica, with the weight firmly in the first two movements followed by a lighter and shorter scherzo and finale. I've heard it live more than any other Bruckner symphony and the proportions seem perfect in that setting. I think it works especially well when the conductor maintains the tempo going into the coda rather than, as most do, slowing down in an attempt to add a profundity and weight the notes don't really have.

Sarge

[Lethevich]

Interesting observations, Sara. Especially about No. 8. That first movement is rather short, yes, and - an absolute favourite of mine. The shortness makes the piece the more brutal and tragic. The Adagio, on the other hand, is almost too extended in its mystic-erotic yearning. And the Finale, too, seems to want to exorcise the trauma of the first movement through sheer length.

It is the finale of the 8th which only just keeps it out of my top 3 - the jubilant bell ringing goes on for just a little too long without quite the weight from earlier on to justify it. Compared to something like the 6th, where everything is in such tight balance (even more than the 4th), it's hard not to consider the piece flawed - and yet I can't think of a single thing I would change other than reactionary "make the first movement scale the heights of the 9th" spluttering, when in reality the 9th is Bruckner's most individual work since the 3rd and it wouldn't be possible to ret-con the inspiration of that final utterance backward...

I view it as his "Classical" symphony, balanced like Haydn and Mozart, with the weight firmly in the first two movements followed by a lighter and shorter scherzo and finale. I've heard it live more than any other Bruckner symphony and the proportions seem perfect in that setting. I think it works especially well when the conductor maintains the tempo going into the coda rather than, as most do, slowing down in an attempt to add a profundity and weight the notes don't really have.

This description reminds me a little of one of Shostakovich's classical wheezes - the 6th symphony. I agree, I do suppose that the 7th is as much in its own world as the 8th, but in reversed form, becoming more 'delightful' as it progresses, opposed to more weighty.

[springrite]

Interesting to see the almost pyramid shape...

I voted for 2, 7 and 9, with 2 being the current favorite.

And I am, of course, anything but a Brucknerite.

[springrite]

I just got the 8th with Gielen. Truth be told, I bought the CD for the Feldman Coptic Light. But I am looking forward to listening to the Gielen 8 tomorrow in my headphone. Attentively!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I do suppose that the 7th is as much in its own world as the 8th, but in reversed form, becoming more 'delightful' as it progresses, opposed to more weighty.

Brilliant! Yes, that is my experience, too. The music gets lighter and lighter in the head after the first two heavy movements.

[DavidW]

To the No.7 fans - do you consider the finale to be a total success,

Of course I do.  This is the first time I've heard that there could even be anything problematic about the 7th, it is a great masterpiece, including the final movement.  As with any Bruckner symphony each movement is a part of the whole.  Together there is unity.  Just discussing the quality of the individual movements doesn't make sense to me.

[Lethevich]

This is the first time I've heard that there could even be anything problematic about the 7th

There isn't as far as most people are concerned - it's why the question interests me. Admittedly it's a bit narcissistic, but I don't claim that others should share my opinion - maybe that they could convince me otherwise n__n

My problem with "self-evident" Bruckner facts derives from having yet to encounter a solid reason for the 6th to be so less popular (from a listener, rather than performance POV) than 4-9, and almost equal with 3, despite me finding it a triumph of melody and structure. Unfortunately I do have to resort to singling out specific movements to do this - otherwise I don't know how comparisons could be made.

[Renfield]

Brilliant! Yes, that is my experience, too. The music gets lighter and lighter in the head after the first two heavy movements.

I disagree!

And I've corrected a typo in my (written) thoughts on this, above, so now they make at least 50% More Sense (TM).

[DavidW]

My problem with "self-evident" Bruckner facts derives from having yet to encounter a solid reason for the 6th to be so less popular (from a listener, rather than performance POV) than 4-9, and almost equal with 3, despite me finding it a triumph of melody and structure. Unfortunately I do have to resort to singling out specific movements to do this - otherwise I don't know how comparisons could be made.

I think that the 6th is just a little more subtle and that's why it's not quite as popular as the others.  But from the poll #s I would say it is pretty popular... you should ask Ray what he thinks because I seem to recall he strongly dislikes that symphony.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I disagree!

And I've corrected a typo in my (written) thoughts on this, above, so now they make at least 50% More Sense (TM).

I agree with the tenderness that infuses the work. It is a very rounded and beautiful creation. With 'lighter in the head' I mean to say that I always hear something very playful and elated in the Finale. But it is a giant having fun.

[Renfield]

I agree with the tenderness that infuses the work. It is a very rounded and beautiful creation. With 'lighter in the head' I mean to say that I always hear something very playful and elated in the Finale. But it is a giant having fun.

Much like in that discussion re: the Mahler 4th from a while ago, I find any playfulness of the 7th's finale, in particular, to be tragic, rather than earnestly fun. Then again, this may be me imposing my Mahlerian norms on other composers needlessly!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Much like in that discussion re: the Mahler 4th from a while ago, I find any playfulness of the 7th's finale, in particular, to be tragic, rather than earnestly fun. Then again, this may be me imposing my Mahlerian norms on other composers needlessly!

Perhaps. When Bruckner really turns dark and tragic, in the Eighth (1st movement) and Ninth (outer movements), I hear the doubts of a believer tearing the music's fabric apart. Bruckner seems afraid of losing his God, whereas Mahler never had Him in the first place, and is looking for Him. The angst that both make audible (to me) is thus fundamentally different in origin.

[mszczuj]

I can't help but imagine the possible extremes of this - the 7th with a shorter adagio

This is the mother of all blasphemies.

[Lethevich]

This is the mother of all blasphemies.

Yip At the moment I like that adagio almost more than the rest of the work combined