Showdown In America: Copland vs. Ives vs. Gershwin

[madaboutmahler]

I was getting ready to hurl a Mahler hammer at Arnold but it's good to see he backed down.

I'm impressed, John!

[Mirror Image]

I'm impressed, John!

[Lisztianwagner]

Voted for Gershwin, I really like his music and how he merged the impressionist/expressionist influences with the rythm and the melodies of Jazz, such brilliant and involving music.

[Mirror Image]

Voted for Gershwin, I really like his music and how he merged the impressionist/expressionist influences with the rythm and the melodies of Jazz, such brilliant and involving music.

One of my favorite Gershwin works is Porgy & Bess Suite believe it or not. I like the usual suspects like Rhapsody in Blue or American In Paris, but this suite is really, really enjoyable. Lullaby is a nice work too written for a string orchestra I believe. My favorite performance of Porgy & Bess Suite is with Levine conducting the CSO on DG. What a smashing performance.

[Cato]

Charles "Shut Up and Take Your Dissonance Like a Man" Ives has my vote!

[TheGSMoeller]

Although Ives is by far my preferred composer of these three, and Copland is more well-known in concert halls and recordings, I'm inclined to say that Gershwin played a more significant role in American music.

Although I wrote this I forgot to say that I voted Ives.

[Mirror Image]

Charles "Shut Up and Take Your Dissonance Like a Man" Ives has my vote!

Ha! I love it! If I'm not mistaken, didn't Ives say this line to someone in an audience who was heckling a Ruggles work?

[Mirror Image]

Although I wrote this I forgot to say that I voted Ives.

I knew you would, Greg.

[eyeresist]

Banana.

I have the impression that Ives is respected, but not loved in the way Gershwin and Copland are.

[Mirror Image]

Banana.

I have the impression that Ives is respected, but not loved in the way Gershwin and Copland are.

That would be an assumption on your part of course. You certainly don't speak for every American classical listener. I love Ives' music. I merely like Copland and I seldom listen to Gershwin.

[eyeresist]

Well, as I said, it's my impression of the consensus. I'd like to hear how people feel.

[TheGSMoeller]

Banana.

I have the impression that Ives is respected, but not loved in the way Gershwin and Copland are.

Well, as I said, it's my impression of the consensus. I'd like to hear how people feel.

Although Ives is by far my preferred composer of these three, and Copland is more well-known in concert halls and recordings, I'm inclined to say that Gershwin played a more significant role in American music.

I voted for Ives here, but more because he's one of my favorite composers, and I feel the best American composer. But it took years before I knew the name Charles Ives, whereas during those years I was very familiar with famous Gershwins tunes and could whistle Fanfare for the Common Man and themes form Appalachian Spring. Not attributing this with Copland and Gershwin being a better composer, just that their music is more well-known and wide spread, there for they could be seen as offering greater contributions to American music.

[Mirror Image]

One of the things I admire about Ives was his very direct way of composing. His music wasn't afraid to make a joyful noise on occasion like in his fourth symphony or in the Fourth of July from Holidays Symphony but even when it got dissonant there was always purpose to the music. It wasn't a bunch of musical cells colliding. There was a strong sense of momentum to it. There's not a note misplaced in any of Ives' music. It all is laid out right in front of the listener.

[springrite]

There's not a note misplaced in any of Ives' music.

I'd say he's not afraid of "misplacing" them, which is nice, too.

[Mirror Image]

I'd say he's not afraid of "misplacing" them, which is nice, too.

That's true.

[Karl Henning]

That would be an assumption on your part of course. You certainly don't speak for every American classical listener.

He didn't claim to speak for every listener of any category. That would be an assumption on your part of course ; )

[Karl Henning]

I'd say he's not afraid of "misplacing" them, which is nice, too.

Now that observation is intelligent.  Ives was not a "tidy" composer, so the remark that "there's no note misplaced" is just fannish puffery.

[Mirror Image]

He didn't claim to speak for every listener of any category. That would be an assumption on your part of course ; )

He edited his post, Karl.

[Karl Henning]

Ah, well, there's always that : )

[Karl Henning]

Incidentally, John . . . as I revisit the Schnittke Fourth, there is a great deal in the method which reminds me of comparable passages in Ives.  I do not, I suppose I am saying, find that symphony any more a matter of "shock value" than I do Ives. Or, where I do, I think it entirely a good and musical thing.