Composers you don't like

[Karl Henning]

Why do I feel like Strangelove all of a sudden?

Sure I could not even speculate . . . .

[raduneo]

I think the decline of interest in opera coincides closely with the rise of cinema, which could do even more spectacular storytelling with (when sound was invented) music. Before this, most composers dreamed of having a hit opera as the surest route to fame and fortune. Even Beethoven attempted one, though it was to be honest a flop. Brahms is regarded as highly unusual for never attempting the genre.

Ballet was regarded as a minor diversion until Tchaikovsky showed it could be a serious musical work (and serious box office). Thanks to the big romantic hits, a few dancers' names entered common knowledge. But that was half a century ago.

The changing public face of the symphony is a bit more complicated and I don't feel up to examining it now, sorry.

That makes a lot of sense! Thank you eyeresist!

Perhaps Brahms never attempting opera had something to do with Beethoven being his idol. While I did not read a biography of Brahms (and I should, I bought one), he strikes me as someone modest, trying to avoid being flashy - maybe he wasn't obsessed with fame? (you can definitely say that about his music in my opinion - not that it cannot be energetic or very emotional, but it does so in a somewhat restrained manner).

Before Tchaikovsky, ballet, in the form it existed before, was very popular among the French I believe; in fact they had little interest to watch an opera if it did not contain a ballet number somewhere in there: that was the highlight for them. (I read that in Fred Plotkin's book about Opera)

[Karl Henning]

Before Tchaikovsky, ballet, in the form it existed before, was very popular among the French I believe; in fact they had little interest to watch an opera if it did not contain a ballet number somewhere in there: that was the highlight for them.

Well, and maybe they're right, at that.

[knight66]

I know we went round n round with this before, but, honestly, in light of recent history, your Post just 'sounds' naive. I'm not criticizing, I'm just shocked that, as I'm reading your Post, my first reaction is, Of course nothing has 'surfaced',...those surrounding Britten have more wherewithal than those in the Catholic church. Hemmings doesn't count as 'surface'?

I mean,... all signs point to something so stereotypically common in the circles of people who would quite naturally be inclined to disregard signs... the 'privileged'? I mean, to me it seems like, Does a bear shit in the woods? Does the pope wear a pagan fish hat? Does a Brit fop bugger little boys?

Why do I feel like Strangelove all of a sudden?

I'm sorry, this just sounds like a blind alcoholic who just can't, for the life of them, figure out why their life isn't peaches. This is so 1945 to me. I've 'heard of' AA meetings that still act like the '60s never happened. I've heard of psychia-tropists who administer 1950s styled therapy to problems that any high schooler can see right through. Our whole society seems to be based on, Here, look over here while I deceive you behind your back...

Oh, ok,... doh de doh de doh, I go skipping down the lane...

Seriously, I don't go pedo-hunting, but Britten STINKS like a turd moustache!!


Then there was Elgar in the same Thread. NOW I'm trolling!!


ok, I just get a little emotional over 'those who had no choice'. not meaning to be a prick

What recent history? I am no apologist for Britten, also, I am not constantly scanning the news to see what may or may not have surfaced. If there are new facts, let me know. But all you have put forward are assumptions. David Hemmings was very much a child of the swinging sixties and he was very direct in the way he conveyed his experiences. He was one of the chosen boys, he was groomed and then dumped the day his voice broke. He said that nothing physical took place. I know perfectly well what Britten's tastes were. I have even read some of his hand written blatherings about some golden haired lad or other.

No one has brought anything forward, though a couple here don't want to accept what I have written. Not that it matters much....his music is his music.

Mike

[Karl Henning]

Groomed and then dumped. Choristerdom is a heartbreak . . . .

[knight66]

I watched a programme over Easter about one of the Cathedral choir schools. They were coming towards the end of an academic year which meant that they automatically lose some singers who move schools. Both boys and girls obviously found it quite traumatic to lose such a focus for their lives, a position in their little society and the sheer loss of the musical experience. It seemed harsh, but no doubt they get over it and I think that for at least a few it reflected some truth in the saying about school days and best days. There must be some kids for whom it is true: though I have never met any.

Mike

[Scion7]

Perhaps Brahms never attempting opera had something to do with Beethoven being his idol.

He greatly admired Wagner - at least what it was he was doing in music in terms of new frontiers and all that - and probably thought why bother?  Or he wasn't inspired along those lines, if his other works are any indication.  Brahms had a very full plate - even though we have a large body of work from him, perhaps twice that amount went into the fireplace as his perfectionism didn't allow anything mediocre to survive - there might have been the sketch of an opera in that ream of paper, which he just never wrote to anyone about, thinking it was crap?

[Karl Henning]

Another thing is, Brahms being more the lone-wolf sort of composer, how to resolve the 'problem' of a librettist?  Unlike his vain contemporary, he knew he was not fit to create a libretto himself . . . but socially, may have been disinclined to collaborate with anyone.

[Leon]

Another thing is, Brahms being more the lone-wolf sort of composer, how to resolve the 'problem' of a librettist?  Unlike his vain contemporary, he knew he was not fit to create a libretto himself . . . but socially, may have been disinclined to collaborate with anyone.

I don't there needs to be any explanation as to why Brahms, or any composer, chose to not write an opera.   Handel wrote many; Bach none.  In the wake of Verdi, Donizetti, Bellini and of course Wagner, Brahms may have felt no need to join in a field that was already full in a genre he had no interest.  The other question I think is more telling: why did so many composers (all of the above) seem to focus so much of their energies on opera and write little of anything else?

[Karl Henning]

Good post.

[Mirror Image]

I've been thinking about this question tonight and honestly how do I really know how a composer acted? I never met any of the composers I admire and that inspire me. So I've come to realization that I have no right to judge what a composer does in his/her personal life. We can read all the stories of how they acted all we want to, but the reality is we'll never know unless we actually know the composer personally which I doubt anyone here has ever met Brahms so he's closed case.

[Opus106]

I've been thinking about this question tonight and honestly how do I really know how a composer acted? I never met any of the composers I admire and that inspire me. So I've come to realization that I have no right to judge what a composer does in his/her personal life. We can read all the stories of how they acted all we want to, but the reality is we'll never know unless we actually know the composer personally which I doubt anyone here has ever met Brahms so he's closed case.

Stop being all rational and just go with the spirit of the thing, will you?

[starrynight]

I've been thinking about this question tonight and honestly how do I really know how a composer acted? I never met any of the composers I admire and that inspire me. So I've come to realization that I have no right to judge what a composer does in his/her personal life. We can read all the stories of how they acted all we want to, but the reality is we'll never know unless we actually know the composer personally which I doubt anyone here has ever met Brahms so he's closed case.

Well that's what I already said, but glad you agree with me. 

[Karl Henning]

Well that's what I already said, but glad you agree with me. 

(* chortle *)

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[starrynight]

I think the decline of interest in opera coincides closely with the rise of cinema, which could do even more spectacular storytelling with (when sound was invented) music. Before this, most composers dreamed of having a hit opera as the surest route to fame and fortune. Even Beethoven attempted one, though it was to be honest a flop. Brahms is regarded as highly unusual for never attempting the genre.

Ballet was regarded as a minor diversion until Tchaikovsky showed it could be a serious musical work (and serious box office). Thanks to the big romantic hits, a few dancers' names entered common knowledge. But that was half a century ago.

The changing public face of the symphony is a bit more complicated and I don't feel up to examining it now, sorry.

Orson Welles in an interview said the first great stars of the gramophone were opera singers, then they got replaced by movie stars and they in turn got replaced by pop singers.

I tend to think that vocal music has been dominated by popular music over through the modern age, whereas instumental music has been the main bastion of classical/experimental music.

[snyprrr]

What recent history? I am no apologist for Britten, also, I am not constantly scanning the news to see what may or may not have surfaced. If there are new facts, let me know. But all you have put forward are assumptions. David Hemmings was very much a child of the swinging sixties and he was very direct in the way he conveyed his experiences. He was one of the chosen boys, he was groomed and then dumped the day his voice broke. He said that nothing physical took place. I know perfectly well what Britten's tastes were. I have even read some of his hand written blatherings about some golden haired lad or other.

No one has brought anything forward, though a couple here don't want to accept what I have written. Not that it matters much....his music is his music.

Mike

By recent history I simply meant that everyone's (that hangs around boys) being outed as a pedo these days.

OK, so Britten just made sweet gentle love to (just liked to 'hang around') young boys, and didn't enjoy 'pushing the dirt uphill',... alright, I'm just aching to see something that just isn't there. I'll seek counseling.

I guess the Classical World really is as boring as it seems. Nothing to see here.

Sigh

"...eschewing even the appearance of evil..."

[Al Moritz]

Musically, I despise the idiotic pseudo-intellectualism of Stockhausen and Cage and most of their New Age aleatoric bibble babble.

I somehow sympathize, because I used to think similarly. Not anymore:

http://home.earthlink.net/~almoritz/changeofopinion.htm

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I somehow sympathize, because I used to think similarly. Not anymore:

http://home.earthlink.net/~almoritz/changeofopinion.htm

I rejected Stockhausen too, for a long time (even while you, Al, were promoting him). Now I'm reconsidering him, starting with Gruppen; and my experience is more positive this time.

[Lethevich]

I think Stimmung is another good gateway. The shock value of the avant-garde is often blunted when writing for choir (or in this case, small vocal ensemble).

[eyeresist]

The inherent contradiction here is breathtakingly amusing in its concision!  If Brahms wrote great music (and only an ass would deny so), then the language was by no means exhausted, QED.

As a great man once said, "There is plenty left to be said in C major."

No, it's documented he "did" do things with them. 

Documented where?