Top 10 Favorite Symphonies of the 20th Century

[71 dB]

•    Elgar 2
•    Elgar 1
•    C. Nielsen 4
•    Elgar/Payne 3
•    C. Nielsen 3
•    C. Nielsen 2
•    C. Nielsen 5
•    Prokofiev 5
•    Villa-Lobos 10
•    Walton 1

[Leon]

You claim that the form is as relevant as ever; relevant as ever  ... and I'm just simply asking you who's writing them today and provide a list of major symphonies of the last 30-40 years. Something you haven't done yet ..

This list contains late 20th/21st century symphonic works, some called "Symphony", others are large scale orchestral works which qualify in all respects except in name.

[Leon]

At a quick glance .. not a lot; and the majority of the more current things (more significant things) on that list aren't symphonies. So the title of the list by "autonomeus"is misleading and inaccurate.

A symphony is a symphony is a symphony ...

[Mirror Image]

You're so disrespectful!

This really isn't your thread and you don't decide for the board what is irrelevant.  Once you start a thread, you lose all control except for having the option of locking it up.

Then why have threads? Why have a thread topic? Why have anything? Let's just have chaos!

By the way, have you ever took the time to read some of James' posts?

[Sammy]

Then why have threads? Why have a thread topic? Why have anything? Let's just have chaos!

By the way, have you ever took the time to read some of James' posts?

I read all posts from all members unless I find them excessively long.  Why do you ask about James' postings?

A shifting of thread content is a long way from "chaos".  Also, whether the shift actually derails the thread's original intent always depends on how other members respond to the person who initiated the shift.  I have started threads that eventually were derailed by multiple members; that's just the way it goes.  THE DERAILING OF A THREAD IS NOT EVIL. 

[Mirror Image]

I read all posts from all members unless I find them excessively long.  Why do you ask about James' postings?

A shifting of thread content is a long way from "chaos".  Also, whether the shift actually derails the thread's original intent always depends on how other members respond to the person who initiated the shift.  I have started threads that eventually were derailed by multiple members; that's just the way it goes.  THE DERAILING OF A THREAD IS NOT EVIL.

Most people apologize for derailing a thread or for letting that derailing go on for too long, but not James, he just keeps going and going like the Energizer bunny. Thank goodness Karl started a thread about James' very topic.

Anyway, we're both terribly off-topic now. I'm done talking about this with you.

[Sammy]

Most people apologize for derailing a thread or for letting that derailing go on for too long, but not James, he just keeps going and going like the Energizer bunny. Thank goodness Karl started a thread about James' very topic.

Anyway, we're both terribly off-topic now. I'm done talking about this with you.

That's what I like about great discussions.  They're concise and end quickly with Sammy the winner.

[eyeresist]

I noticed in James's 21st century classic thread, Mirror Image named a number of composers who are in fact symphonists! So there's that. There's also the practical matter of music taking a long time to be performed and heard (generally much longer than in the past, due to concerts now being commited to the canon). Remember, we are still "discovering" new composers who died centuries ago.

[starrynight]

I'm just simply asking you who's writing them today and provide a list of major symphonies of the last 30-40 years. Something you haven't done yet ..[/font]

You could do your own research on that. 

[71 dB]

Reading this thread makes me realise that I have heard only a very tiny fraction of 20th century symphonies. It's amazing how people have that much time and money to invest exploring composers and their symphonies (often massive long works). Or why people are so interested in exploring so much in the first place.

I haven't explored even Prokofiev's symphonies completely (I haven't heard 2, 4 and 6 and only recently bought 3 and 7). Shostakovich's symphonies don't seem to be my cup of tea; I have only 5 & 9 and they don't encourage me to explore the rest. Elgar's and Nielsen's symphonies I do love. If there is something similar to be explored then that could be worth while.

Well, in the next life I can be a dedicated explorer of 20th century symphonies. In this life I am too interested in so many other types of music, from Northern Germany baroque (just listened to Matthias Weckmann) to Carly Simon... 

[eyeresist]

Reading this thread makes me realise that I have heard only a very tiny fraction of 20th century symphonies. It's amazing how people have that much time and money to invest exploring composers and their symphonies (often massive long works). Or why people are so interested in exploring so much in the first place.

I haven't explored even Prokofiev's symphonies completely (I haven't heard 2, 4 and 6 and only recently bought 3 and 7). Shostakovich's symphonies don't seem to be my cup of tea; I have only 5 & 9 and they don't encourage me to explore the rest. Elgar's and Nielsen's symphonies I do love. If there is something similar to be explored then that could be worth while.

The reason we explore is the desire for fresh pleasures, ultimately. Sadly, this search must be limited by money and time (except for Mirror Image, whom I suspect of being a time lord). One of this forum's essential is to help us find things we'll like.

For Shostakovich, I suggest the impudent first symphony and manic depressive cello concerto 1 as good points of access (it's one of the three great cello concertos, along with Dvorak and Elgar).
If you are wary of caustic music, there's a CD of Prokofiev's symphonies 1 and 7 (plus the Three Oranges suite) conducted by Malko, which I think is the easiest introduction to this composer's symphonies.
Do you know Vaughan Williams? How about Bax? How have you fared with Mahler?


If you love Elgar, you'll love this:
[ASIN]B000004CVV[/ASIN]

[71 dB]

The reason we explore is the desire for fresh pleasures, ultimately. Sadly, this search must be limited by money and time (except for Mirror Image, whom I suspect of being a time lord). One of this forum's essential is to help us find things we'll like.

We have priorities. My problem haven't been so much in finding (enough) things I like but the time/money limitations. Not so much the money but time is an issue. Having a really depressing and mentally exhausting job means that most of my free time goes recovering mentally for the next day. It's not easy to explore (atonal) symphonies in that state. That's why I prefer lighter, more entertaining music like Carly Simon most of the time.

For Shostakovich, I suggest the impudent first symphony and manic depressive cello concerto 1 as good points of access (it's one of the three great cello concertos, along with Dvorak and Elgar).

I have Shostakovich's violin and piano concertos but the cello concertos I haven't heard. Just bought Hindemith's (one promising composer I have started to explore slowly) cello concertos on cpo. I need to listen to those more before exploring other cello concertos. I have never figured Shostakovich an important composer of cello concertos.

If you are wary of caustic music, there's a CD of Prokofiev's symphonies 1 and 7 (plus the Three Oranges suite) conducted by Malko, which I think is the easiest introduction to this composer's symphonies.

As I mentioned, I do have Prokofiev's symphonies 1, 3, 5 and 7. Surely the first symphony is easy. Number 5 of these is my favorite.

Caustic music as such isn't an issue. It's about how it is constructed. For "colder and edgier" post war music I prefer techno sounds of 90's and 00's, for example Autechre.

Some people are willing to explore all the symphonies of 20th century as long as it is "classical music" but would never explore Autechre because it is "techno/computer music". The more I explore music the more I feel that genre means almost nothing. Execution is what counts. Classical music composers don't have monopoly on excellence of execution. In my opinion the best tracks by artist such as Carly Simon or Autechre are simply amazing music.

Do you know Vaughan Williams? How about Bax? How have you fared with Mahler?

RVW: Fantasia on Greensleaves and The Lark Ascending are familiar to me, of course. Based on those works, RVW's style isn't exactly my cup of tea. Maybe I should check out symphony no. 6 to be sure.

Bax: I have one Naxos disc of his chamber music for harp. I don't have a clue about how I would react to his symphonies. I became somewhat suspicious about Non-Elgar "british" symphonies after buying Harty's An Irish Symphony and finding it dull. Nothing like Elgar (I was told somewhere he is similar to Elgar, something I strongly disagree). I fear that RWV, Bax, Alwyn, Arnold, Bliss, Piston, Rawsthorne, etc. sound as dull as Harty to me. That is an irrational fear but keeps me effectively from exploring. 

However, I have Walton's first Symphony and Truscott's Symphony in E major. I like those. 

Mahler: I have tried and tried again but I don't get Mahler hype. I prefer Bruckner over Mahler but even Bruckner isn't one of my favorites.

If you love Elgar, you'll love this:
[ASIN]B000004CVV[/ASIN]

I'll love that? Well, why did I almost hate the Naxos disc of his Symphonies 1 & 2 + The School for Scandal + First Essay for Orchestra? Extremely lousy performance?

Thanks for the suggestions!

[madaboutmahler]

•    Elgar/Payne 3

Really glad to see this one being mentioned here. I'll certainly include it in my next list, I love that piece so much!

Mahler 5,6,7,9, VW 6, Casella 3, Roussel 3, Sibelius 5, Nielsen 5, Simpson 4/9 and the Elgar symphonies. (oops, that's not quite 10, I suppose I'm cheating a little.... and I'm just going to count the Alpine Symphony as a tone poem )

Are we allowed to follow your example of doing another 10 as well then, John?

So, continuing from this list....
Shosty 5,9,11, Prokofiev 5, Elgar/Payne 3, Skold 2, Rach 2, Martinu 4, Nielsen 4, Sibelius 6, Stravinsky in 3 movements.



ooops, that was in fact another 11... oh well!

[Leo K.]

What do folks think of Webern's symphony Op.21? It's an amazing, perhaps underrated work. I love how it sounds like a meditation of the first bars of Mahler's 9.

[eyeresist]

I have Shostakovich's violin and piano concertos but the cello concertos I haven't heard. Just bought Hindemith's (one promising composer I have started to explore slowly) cello concertos on cpo. I need to listen to those more before exploring other cello concertos. I have never figured Shostakovich an important composer of cello concertos.

I'd say Shostakovich is a more important composer of cello concertos than is Hindemith (whose cello concertos I so far find unrewarding). I have a feeling the consensus is with me on this.

As I mentioned, I do have Prokofiev's symphonies 1, 3, 5 and 7.

Sorry, I misunderstood that bit.

RVW: Fantasia on Greensleaves and The Lark Ascending are familiar to me, of course. Based on those works, RVW's style isn't exactly my cup of tea. Maybe I should check out symphony no. 6 to be sure.

I don't think anyone should judge RVW based on Greensleeves! Just pick up a cheap box of his symphonies (Previn or Handley) and dive in.

Bax: I have one Naxos disc of his chamber music for harp. I don't have a clue about how I would react to his symphonies. I became somewhat suspicious about Non-Elgar "british" symphonies after buying Harty's An Irish Symphony and finding it dull. Nothing like Elgar (I was told somewhere he is similar to Elgar, something I strongly disagree). I fear that RVW, Bax, Alwyn, Arnold, Bliss, Piston, Rawsthorne, etc. sound as dull as Harty to me. That is an irrational fear but keeps me effectively from exploring. 

It is a danger of exploring musical byways that you'll encounter strong advocation of second-class music. I have little time for most of the names you've mentioned (BTW, Piston is American). I'd say Elgar and RVW are the two greatest English symphonists. After them, Bax is the most engaging, but his rhapsodic structures make him a bit slippery to get hold of.

Mahler: I have tried and tried again but I don't get Mahler hype. I prefer Bruckner over Mahler but even Bruckner isn't one of my favorites.

Have you been following the American recommendations? I'd say the Europeans have a better idea of how this music should go. You should pick up a CD of Des Knaben Wunderhorn. This collection of songs (based on lyrics from old German folk songs) is very approachable and enjoyable.

[71 dB]

I'd say Shostakovich is a more important composer of cello concertos than is Hindemith (whose cello concertos I so far find unrewarding). I have a feeling the consensus is with me on this.

Maybe but my taste doesn't always follow consensus. I got the Hindemith disc for a very low price so I picked it up since I am exploring Hindemith anyway...

I don't think anyone should judge RVW based on Greensleeves! Just pick up a cheap box of his symphonies (Previn or Handley) and dive in.

Before or after diving into Shostakovich's cello concertos? Nine symphonies isn't an easy task to explore

It is a danger of exploring musical byways that you'll encounter strong advocation of second-class music. I have little time for most of the names you've mentioned (BTW, Piston is American). I'd say Elgar and RVW are the two greatest English symphonists. After them, Bax is the most engaging, but his rhapsodic structures make him a bit slippery to get hold of.

Silly me including Piston.

Have you been following the American recommendations? I'd say the Europeans have a better idea of how this music should go. You should pick up a CD of Des Knaben Wunderhorn. This collection of songs (based on lyrics from old German folk songs) is very approachable and enjoyable.

#1 => Muti
#3 => Tennstedt
#4 => Tennstedt
#5 => Maazel

Songs? Not sure if I am into those...

[eyeresist]

Maybe but my taste doesn't always follow consensus.

Mine neither

Before or after diving into Shostakovich's cello concertos? Nine symphonies isn't an easy task to explore

You are right about that   If I knew a bit more about your tastes I could recommend a bit more strategically. I was just listening to RVW's underrated 3rd symphony, deceptively gentle pastoral stuff, acutely put together. A faint influence of Ravel, but also of Purcell.

#1 => Muti
#3 => Tennstedt
#4 => Tennstedt
#5 => Maazel

Songs? Not sure if I am into those...

I see you have been in the bargain bin! I like Tennstedt's 3, but Mahler's longest work took me years to come to terms with. I'd suggest the 2nd conducted by Klemperer (EMI ) as an essential beginner purchase.

I am not usually into songs (lieder, if you like), but the Wunderhorn set is highly melodic and varied, and very accessible.

Thanks for letting me blither on like this

[TheGSMoeller]

If you love Elgar, you'll love this:
[ASIN]B000004CVV[/ASIN]

I couldn't praise this album enough.

[71 dB]

Mine neither
You are right about that   If I knew a bit more about your tastes I could recommend a bit more strategically.)

I like symphonies by Elgar, Nielsen, Taneyev and Saint-Saëns the most.

I see you have been in the bargain bin!

Not even in the bargain bin. I was kindly donated duplicates years back while unemployed.

I like Tennstedt's 3, but Mahler's longest work took me years to come to terms with. I'd suggest the 2nd conducted by Klemperer (EMI ) as an essential beginner purchase.

Ok, thanks!

I am not usually into songs (lieder, if you like), but the Wunderhorn set is highly melodic and varied, and very accessible.

Thanks for letting me blither on like this

No problem. 

[starrynight]

I think it's fairly obvious to quite a few people that popular music (of whatever type from electronica, singer-songwriter or whatever) can be just as fulfulling as classical.  Obviously the more complex the music the longer it takes to digest and assess, and with classical you sometimes need to look at more than one performance.  The internet has opened up many things to many people but everybody's time is to some extent limited which can be a frustration. 

I do like to explore deeper into the kinds of music I like to gain a greater understanding of what has been achieved beyond what has got all the promotion in the past.  It's nice to walk down less visited paths to discover the rich variety there is.  Music is both abstract and at the same time very direct and personal which makes it quite stimulating on an individual level and also extremely universal.  On that level music and the internet go very together very well, and I enjoy looking at music from places previously inaccessible to me. 

With Vaughan Williams I find his 8th symphony a solid work, less dependant on atmosphere than some others.  The only thing is to find a performance that is convincing with the first movement, some conductors don't make that movement flow as I feel it should.  I think I heard a performance with a Bournemouth orchestra that was quite good though.