Shostakovich Symphonies, Cycles & Otherwise

[Karl Henning]

I'm a little confused.  In the digital recording I hear horns playing things I previously would not have believed physically possible.   How did you ascertain that they are not playing "fortissimo?"

Chiefly by listening : )

The last time I heard that recording was in a friend's living room where he played it on some of the best stereo equipment I have ever been near. It was a time not long after I had first made the acquaintance of the Jansons/Phila recording of the Tenth, and my friend had read my effusive praise . . . and since the HvK recording (yea, even the later recording) has always been the darling of the audio world, he proposed that we should listen to it.

There is an enormous climax in the middle of the first movement, a sustained tutti passage where there are a number of places where the horns are unison and fortissimo (I mean, so marked in the score).  In general, the brass are down in the mix of the HvK recording.  At one point, I put it to my friend: "The horns: is this fortissimo, would you say?"  He agreed . . . if that was fortissimo, then fortissimo itself is diminished to a puny thing . . . .

[vandermolen]

Jarvi is very good in No 4. Perhaps Kondrashin is my favourite in 4 and 11 'The Year 1905', but there are other fine versions too from Berglund etc and I really like Previn's recording of Nos 4 (EMI) and 8 (EMI or DGG). Slatkin's No 8 is a favourite and Mravinsky's 1937 recording of Symphony No 5 is in a class of its own - it sounds close in spirit to Symphony No 4. As for No 10 I agree about Ancerl. I just bought a fascinating version on ICA of Sveltlanov conducting Symphony 10 with the USSR SSO in London on 21st August 1968 - on the day that the Soviet Union invaded Czechoslovakia. The Symphony starts against a background of angry shouted protests from the audience ('Go Home! etc') whilst others in the audience try to hush them up - extraordinary.

[Karl Henning]

The Chicago brass in that Previn recording of the Fourth are something else, Jeffrey.

[bhodges]

I just bought a fascinating version on ICA of Sveltlanov conducting Symphony 10 with the USSR SSO in London on 21st August 1968 - on the day that the Soviet Union invaded Czechoslovakia. The Symphony starts against a background of angry shouted protests from the audience ('Go Home! etc') whilst others in the audience try to hush them up - extraordinary.

Now that sounds like a recording to have, for many reasons. Thanks for mentioning it!

--Bruce

[Fafner]

Chiefly by listening : )

The last time I heard that recording was in a friend's living room where he played it on some of the best stereo equipment I have ever been near. It was a time not long after I had first made the acquaintance of the Jansons/Phila recording of the Tenth, and my friend had read my effusive praise . . . and since the HvK recording (yea, even the later recording) has always been the darling of the audio world, he proposed that we should listen to it.

There is an enormous climax in the middle of the first movement, a sustained tutti passage where there are a number of places where the horns are unison and fortissimo (I mean, so marked in the score).  In general, the brass are down in the mix of the HvK recording.  At one point, I put it to my friend: "The horns: is this fortissimo, would you say?"  He agreed . . . if that was fortissimo, then fortissimo itself is diminished to a puny thing . . . .

I don't know if you've seen the film "Twelve Angry Men," but in that film a juror played by Henry Fonda notes that one witness to a murder claims to have glimpsed the crime through the last car of a passing elevated subway train, and another claims to have heard the defendant shout "I'm gonna kill ya," immediately followed by the sickening thud of the victim's body hitting the floor.  "How," Mr. Fonda's character asks, "could he have heard the defendant's threat if there was an elevated subway train roaring by just outside the windows?

So I put it to you, how could you have had this subtle conversation about whether a horn fortissimo was puny, if that "sustained tutti" was roaring away at concert volume from the best stereo system you have ever been near?  I put it to you that your memory is playing tricks with you, and the the recalled conversation took place while listening to a recording of a Poulenc flute sonata.   There's nothing more disappointing than a puny fortissimo in a Poulenc flute sonata. 

[vandermolen]

The Chicago brass in that Previn recording of the Fourth are something else, Jeffrey.

That's very true Karl

I think that both Previn (No 4) and Slatkin (No are great conductors of Shostakovich. The end of No 4 (one of the greatest moments in all music IMHO) is especially compelling and deeply felt in Previn's recording and the pace feels just right.

[Karl Henning]

That's very true Bruce

But . . . I'm Karl : )

(Mind you, I think the world of our Bruce.)

[vandermolen]

But . . . I'm Karl : )

(Mind you, I think the world of our Bruce.)

Apologies Karl(for it is he  ) I wanted to respond to you and Bruce and got rather confused 

I've amended the original post now.

[vandermolen]

Now that sounds like a recording to have, for many reasons. Thanks for mentioning it!

--Bruce

Here it is Bruce - an extraordinary performance (for both historical and musical reasons);
[asin]B0059B0BZ4[/asin]

[Karl Henning]

And thanks for the link, Jeffrey, that does look most interesting.

[Karl Henning]

I don't know if you've seen the film "Twelve Angry Men," but in that film a juror played by Henry Fonda notes that one witness to a murder claims to have glimpsed the crime through the last car of a passing elevated subway train, and another claims to have heard the defendant shout "I'm gonna kill ya," immediately followed by the sickening thud of the victim's body hitting the floor.  "How," Mr. Fonda's character asks, "could he have heard the defendant's threat if there was an elevated subway train roaring by just outside the windows?

So I put it to you, how could you have had this subtle conversation about whether a horn fortissimo was puny, if that "sustained tutti" was roaring away at concert volume from the best stereo system you have ever been near?  I put it to you that your memory is playing tricks with you, and the the recalled conversation took place while listening to a recording of a Poulenc flute sonata.   There's nothing more disappointing than a puny fortissimo in a Poulenc flute sonata. 

Curses! Incarcerated again!

[Fafner]

Curses! Incarcerated again!

Just trying to establish reasonable doubt.

[Karl Henning]

No, there was no Poulenc that evening : )

[eyeresist]

I just bought a fascinating version on ICA of Sveltlanov conducting Symphony 10 with the USSR SSO in London on 21st August 1968 - on the day that the Soviet Union invaded Czechoslovakia. The Symphony starts against a background of angry shouted protests from the audience ('Go Home! etc') whilst others in the audience try to hush them up - extraordinary.

I must have this one.

Symphony 4 - Rozhdestvensky, Barshai
Symphony 5 - Svetlanov

[Karl Henning]

Does the heart good to see such favorable reviews of the Haitink set on Amazon.

[Ataraxia]

Does the heart good to see such favorable reviews of the Haitink set on Amazon.

That's the one I have.

[Karl Henning]

You have chosen well, O Dave!

[kishnevi]

Just trying to establish reasonable doubt.

I've not heard the performance--but if the horns couldn't be distinguished in the middle of that sustained tutti, then I would infer they were not playing a very fortissimo fortissimo.

[Karl Henning]

Where they ought to sing out above all else for those moments.

[vandermolen]

I must have this one.

Symphony 4 - Rozhdestvensky, Barshai
Symphony 5 - Svetlanov

You won't regret it! It is the most extaordinary experience listening to it - from the angry shouted protests at the start to the wild ovation at the end. All very moving in the circumstances. The Rimsky Korsakov fillers are very fine too.  By the way I don't agree with the review on Amazon.com and posted my own on Amazon UK - but you must make your own mind up and I'll be interested to hear what you think.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Evgeny-Svetlanov-State-Symphony-Orchestra/dp/B0059B0BZ4/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1342694735&sr=1-1