Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[Leo K.]

Haitink - (because you never knew just how beautiful boring can be!)

Perfect summary of Haitink's style. I'm particularly impressed with his live Mahler broadcasts.

[Papy Oli]

Hi Marc, Hi Leo,

Thank you both for your feedback !

[Sergeant Rock]

Thank you Jens !

And errr... Sarge ?....Not sure where Sarge's post has gone  there was one, wasn't there ?? Did he change his mind on Svetlanov over dinner ? 

Sorry I disappeared....literally disappeared    After posting I realized I wouldn't be making it back soon (as promised) so I decided to remove the message, hoping you hadn't seen it.

Here's how I would acquire them: first Svetlanov, then Inbal. I'm just not enthusiastic about the boxed cycles of Kubelik, Haitink or Kondrashin (although there are marvelous performances from each of course; e.g., Kubelik's Fifth, Haitink's Third and Ninth; Kondrashin's Seventh). Haitink is, I think, better collected individually with recordings from various periods and orchestras (I prefer his Berlin Fifth to the earlier Concertgebouw, for example). The live Audite are often superior to Kubelik's studio efforts, and I plain don't enjoy much of Kondrashin's Mahler (and it isn't complete anyway, missing 2 and 8 ).

Svetlanov is broadly paced and mannered (reminding me of Maazel's Mahler), with some odd orchestral balances highlighting often new, sometimes odd detail. Percussion is prominent and explosive. In other words, my kind of recording    To give you an idea, here's the first movement of the Second:

http://www.4shared.com/mp3/KdQGJcw1/01-001_Part_1__Allegro_maestro.html


Unfortunately the solo voices (in 2 and 4) are too closely, and hugely, miked, really distorting their relationship with the orchestra and making listening difficult (to get the voices under control the volume needs to be turned down to the orchestra's detriment). But that's the only downside....for me. It's certainly not a first, second...or even sixth choice for a complete Mahler cycle but, I think, a very interesting one for someone with an already extensive collection like yourself.

Inbal - (...then again, you might take Inbal first, just as well... a wildly underrated cycle with one of the finest 4th, but also 7th, 5th, LvdE...)

Agree completely with Jens.

Sarge

[Papy Oli]

Welcome back Sarge  and thanks for your comments and the Svetlanov sample. Will check it out this evening.

Totenfeier as a sample as well... you crafty bugger !!! 

[Sergeant Rock]

Welcome back Sarge  and thanks for your comments and the Svetlanov sample. Will check it out this evening.

Totenfeier as a sample as well... you crafty bugger !!! 

Yes, that was quite deliberate. I picked that particular movement just to sway you 


Sarge

[Karl Henning]

Tactically done, Sarge ; )

[Sergeant Rock]

Tactically done, Sarge ; )

Military training pays off 

Sarge

[Papy Oli]

Svetlanov is broadly paced and mannered (reminding me of Maazel's Mahler), with some odd orchestral balances highlighting often new, sometimes odd detail. Percussion is prominent and explosive. In other words, my kind of recording    To give you an idea, here's the first movement of the Second:

http://www.4shared.com/mp3/KdQGJcw1/01-001_Part_1__Allegro_maestro.html

23 minutes later, I am not sure if I am thrilled by it... or petrified... or both... it is a bit all over the shop in the first few minutes... but quite an intense version overall...and at least, he takes the final notes in the right pace for my liking  0:) .... right, I am intrigued now... 

[Sergeant Rock]

23 minutes later, I am not sure if I am thrilled by it... or petrified... or both... it is a bit all over the shop in the first few minutes... but quite an intense version overall...and at least, he takes the final notes in the right pace for my liking  0:) .... right, I am intrigued now... 

His style, his interpretive choices (a ten minute Rondo-Burleske!) are quite individual...even odd at times, and his orchestra unpolished, raw (still possessing that unique Soviet "color"). That's why I wanted you to hear a slice: to have some idea what you'd be getting into if you chose Svetlanov. Any of the other four (even Kondrashin) are safer bets.

Me, I just bought the Zinman cycle. Jeffrey's incessant plugging for Zinman's Ninth finally got to me 

Sarge

[mahler10th]

But what of the Inbal 80's Denon cyle?  Masterful in that Inbal reads these symphonies with almost narrative like delivery...you will have read all of Mahler by the time you've listened to the Inbal set.

[Karl Henning]

Svetlanov in Mahler, eh? (and . . . is this me considering this? . . .)

[Sergeant Rock]

But what of the Inbal 80's Denon cyle?  Masterful in that Inbal reads these symphonies with almost narrative like delivery...you will have read all of Mahler by the time you've listened to the Inbal set.

Yes, he shouldn't forget Inbal....and it is remarkably inexpensive from Amazon Kraut: €29


Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Svetlanov in Mahler, eh? (and . . . is this me considering this? . . .)

Hey, Karl. If you are interested in great Mahler interpretation and performance, in good sound, there are many other cycles you should consider first. On the other hand, if you have a particular interest in Russian orchestras and conductors, it's a must have, I think (as is the Kondrashin box).

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

Thanks for the word, Sarge!  Anyway, I've yet to make my way completely through the "all-star" DG box . . . .

[Papy Oli]

But what of the Inbal 80's Denon cyle?  Masterful in that Inbal reads these symphonies with almost narrative like delivery...you will have read all of Mahler by the time you've listened to the Inbal set.

Yes, he shouldn't forget Inbal....and it is remarkably inexpensive from Amazon Kraut: €29

Sarge

I have seen the Inbal steadily at 29 euros on JPC as well (I should have clinched it months ago when it was at 19 !!) . There are a couple other symphony sets I am eyeing too from there (Pettersson CPO at 49 euros, Toch, Peterson-Berger as well...). I think there will be a bundle from JPC soon...

[kishnevi]

Me, I just bought the Zinman cycle. Jeffrey's incessant plugging for Zinman's Ninth finally got to me 

Sarge

It's not just his Ninth that I like:  I think he does a very good job with 3 and 4. 
But I'll be most interested  in what you think of his Tenth, because it struck me as a failure. 
The rest-1,2, 5-8--hit me as somewhere between workmanlike excellence and first class, but  not as outstanding.

And now you've got me intrigues with Svetlanov.....

[Papy Oli]

hmmm... Might have to re-assess Zinman too... I bought his M1 when he started the cycle and found it bland at the time. I never really looked into his cycle after that...

MTT is another one (not been convinced by his M2 and didn't take it further either).

[Sergeant Rock]

MTT is another one (not been convinced by his M2 and didn't take it further either).

Yeah, same here. MTT's M2 turned me off. The continuous speeding up, slowing down within phrases gave me motion sickness   I ignored MTT for many years. However, the recent M1 blind comparison revealed an M1 I really liked...enough to buy. His M4 too turned out to be a pleasant surprise.

Sarge

[Octave]

I know I would like to have Haitink's LIED VON DER ERDE, and it seems I am spoilt for choice.  Aside from a Philips/Eloquence single disc from 2000, there are two doubles.  Am I better served by one of these?



The only question for me was which had the more robust filler, the other orchestral songs or the #9.  I've run across some compliments of everything present here, but only glowing/shortlisting praise for the LIED VON DER ERDE.  John Grabowski at Amazon said this Ninth was one of the greats, but I don't always concur with his judgments; plus I actively dislike his electronic personality.

[Marc]

I know I would like to have Haitink's LIED VON DER ERDE, and it seems I am spoilt for choice.  Aside from a Philips/Eloquence single disc from 2000, there are two doubles.  Am I better served by one of these?



The only question for me was which had the more robust filler, the other orchestral songs or the #9.  I've run across some compliments of everything present here, but only glowing/shortlisting praise for the LIED VON DER ERDE.  John Grabowski at Amazon said this Ninth was one of the greats, but I don't always concur with his judgments; plus I actively dislike his electronic personality.

I like Hermann Prey very much in the 'Fahrende Geselle' and the Kindertotenlieder. But yes, I agree with mister Grabowski that the Ninth is indeed a great one. It's genuine Haitink: a performance without antics, frills and mannerism, and it's beautifully played by the Concertgebouw Orchestra.
In my younger years, I decided to buy both issues, because of my sentiments towards the Prey LPs (which I already knew) and also because of my memories of Haitink's last Christmas Matinee with the Ninth in 1987 (which is another performance btw).
In later years, I bought the complete Haitink/Mahler symphonies box, which is a solid choice IMHO, with the exception of a shallow 8th. Mind you, this box does not include the song cycles nor Das Lied von der Erde. So, if you're already thinking of extending your Haitink's Mahler collection with the symphonies boxset in the (near) future, the combi Das Lied/Lieder might be the best choice.

http://www.amazon.com/Symphonies-Gustav-Mahler/dp/B00000E58A/