Men vs Women Regarding True Love of Classical Music

[shelnatowsky]

I've been around for over 60 years and have been an ardent classical music listener and reader of its history for over 35 years. In all that time, I've noticed very little listening interest of classical music by women vs men. Note, I am very egalitarian and with no biases. But, I cannot discuss classical music with women. Their anger emerges. To me, it's, at best, background music for them, with their preferences being the "soft" compositions. At concerts, they come because of husbands/man friends or just want to show up in their finery and liking to be wriitten up in the social columns in the papers. Please give me some insight. Do they truly like classical music and to the same degree as men, crossing all periods, or are they not interested and think of it to be used to be seen or to calm their other, more important activities? It reminds me of the baroque/classical/romantic periods when women attended small concerts or listened to a virtuoso for "non-musical" reasons. If I bring this up with an educated woman, I catch h-ll! Help me understand this whole thing, please.

[Superhorn]

   That hasn't been my experience . I've known and met many women who love classical music just as much as men , if not even more so .
Love of classical music doesn't really have anything to do with gender, as far as I can tell .  Women now play a much more important role in classical music than ever before as both performers, composers, critics and musicologists  .
   Until fairly recently, most orchestral musicians were male, there were virtually no women conductors, certainly not appearing with major orchestras and opera companies,  music by women composers was rarely if ever performed in public , etc.
Of course, there were many great women opera and concert singers, and  a fair number of world famous pianists and violinists etc,
but on the whole, the world of classicla music was dominated by men, and white males at that .
But things are vastly different now . There are plenty of women in orchestras everywhere,  more an dmore women are starting to make careers as conductors, there are more women composers and  it's not evne news now when an orchestra plays a work by a contemorary woman composer .
    For some reaosn, there are not too many women music critics writing for major newspapers, but there are more than before .
I don't see any lack of women at concerts or opera performances, nor do they applaud any less enthusiastically as men .

[bhodges]

Maybe you're just hanging out with the wrong women!    (And what Superhorn said ^^^^)

Seriously, I have noticed little difference, at least in NYC audiences; there are plenty of women at concerts, almost all listening attentively. I do notice that among couples who attend, sometimes one or the other - either male or female - is clearly there to accompany the partner and has no interest in the music. But the number seems about equally divided, gender-wise.

--Bruce

[Todd]

Their anger emerges.

I've yet to meet a woman who gets angry about classical music.

[shelnatowsky]

NYC has learned women. Nothing unexpected to see them at concerts. In the home across the USA, women do not listen to classical music. They just don't. I've talked to many on this matter and re the composers/pieces, in general: I get no interest. Men's interest vs women's must be 100:1. Remember, other than about 5-6 major intellectual cities in the USA, the rest are middle America. These women are the majority of the women compared to NYC, Phila, Boston, Chicago, SF, LA, Atlanta and a couple of others. Classical music is not a woman thing.

[Parsifal]

Your second post on the forum is this misogyny?

[Karl Henning]

I've yet to meet a woman who gets angry about classical music.

Likewise. Certainly none of the women who are my fellow musicians get angry over it.

[shelnatowsky]

Read my first statements. I am not biased. I like women, especially for their intellect!

[shelnatowsky]

Dr. Henning: Why would a female musician be angry about classical music? That statement makes no sense and is self-contradictory.

Dr. Sheldon Natowsky, Ph.D. Cornell University
and ex-violinist

[Karl Henning]

. . . But there's no question that women and men listen to music differently . . . .

Speaking of on-musicians, I think you have something here. But w/r/t w. who are my f. m. — I cannot say that I have observed that they listen at all differently.

[Parsifal]

I've had female friends that were VERY much into it. Well... one. But that's the proverbial exception that puts the rule that you speak of to the test... and I must say that I absolutely hear you. I think attendance is probably fairly equal, between men and women. But there's no question that women and men listen to music differently and I find that that knew no women who obsess as much about it as some of the male music lovers do. That goes even more so for record-collecting. All the lovely and adored exceptions aside, the's something of a boys'-club thing about classical music at this level of fanaticism. Heck, just take a look around this forum. Not exactly teeming with women.

Obsessive collection of classical music CDs and wasting time on combative internet forums may be a "boys club" but I see little relationship between such things and "true love" or appreciation of classical music.  The ranks of the orchestras seem to be roughly half female, which seems to support the conclusion that both genders participate equally in the art form itself.

[shelnatowsky]

I think jlaurson understands a lot of what I'm saying. Yes, how many women have even responded to my original extended statement!!!???  Where are they? Do they even deal much with this site?

Dr. Sheldon (Shel) Natowsky

[Todd]

Dr. Sheldon Natowsky, Ph.D. Cornell University

You're not the Sheldon Natowsky who happens to "love writing humor and comedic material, and, [is] a practical joker" are you? 

[shelnatowsky]

To sanantonio:

I find interest in things generates talk from those people about those things. If you love watching baseball, e.g., you talk about it. Same with all interests. It's a given. Note, women love my personality and they open up to me and w/o my prodding. Those who don't like classical music (again, far more women than men):
don't listen to it
don't talk about it
don't go to classical concerts at their insistence

Now, it's time for some lieder. Back later.

Shel

[shelnatowsky]

Todd:

You are sharp! Yes, even comedy writers are scientists, like practical jokes, like Bach, Berlioz and Stravinsky, collect autographs, collect challenge coins, read books most eclectic, love Civil War history, collect very difficult mechanical puzzles, and have a plethora of other interests. Is my classical music opinion now compromised? I do not think so! You must be a Spoof kinda guy!

Regards,
Shel Natowsky, (Ph.D. in physical organic chemistry, Cornell University)

[North Star]

Todd:

You are sharp! Yes, even comedy writers are scientists, like practical jokes, like Bach, Berlioz and Stravinsky, collect autographs, collect challenge coins, read books most eclectic, love Civil War history, collect very difficult mechanical puzzles, and have a plethora of other interests. Is my classical music opinion now compromised? I do not think so! You must be a Spoof kinda guy!

Regards,
Shel Natowsky, (Ph.D. in physical organic chemistry, Cornell University)

I guess he might have meant that you may be writing humorously here, too, Dr. Natowsky.
I must say that my experience is entirely similar - women don't tend to be obsessive about classical music - or cars, or must things not cloths. Those few women whom I've known that like classical music, may even be musicians, and play in an amateur orchestra, but they're not going to listen to a symphony from a recording. Not that I know many people in my age group who listen to classical music. Our chemistry department's president is a choir leader and composer of choir music.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

  But if this forum is any guide, then men definitely like talking about collecting CDs more than women do. 

Obsessive collection of classical music CDs and wasting time on combative internet forums may be a "boys club"

Yep. Another point of division is audiophilia. I don't think I've ever met a female audiophile.

[Gurn Blanston]

Yep. Another point of division is audiophilia. I don't think I've ever met a female audiophile.

Women are far too wise for that. I asked my wife already.   

[Cato]

I would seem to be a wee bit older than the founder of the topic, live in Ohio, where two world-class orchestras (Cleveland and Cincinnati) and two excellent bands (Dayton and Toledo) are located, and have attended concerts by all four over the last c. 50 years.

For the last 6 years I have taught Latin to 6th through 8th Graders, where I have integrated classical music into the curriculum from Gregorian Chant through Mozart and Beethoven, Bruckner and Mahler, to Orff and Stravinsky.

From all this experience one can make the generalization women are just as interested in classical music as men, and maybe even more interested.   

[shelnatowsky]

Velimir & Gurn:

Men like collecting CDs (audiophilia) because they like the music on them. Women do not like classical music, as men do, and, hence, they do not buy CD'S.

Two points:

My ex's cousin played the flute professionally. Yet,  she barely listened to the clasical repetoire!!!! What!!!

A leader of the virtuosi performing Rossini club in Portland, ME was presented with 15 of my favorite classical pieces by e-mail. She failed to reply. Finally, I found out she hardly listens to classical music and know little about it!!!

And, those are two women highly exposed to the classics.

Now, take your middle class, even educated women (middle America) and the result is the same, EXCEPT for large metro areas. But, read the following about NYC:

I have 2 college-educated cousins (women) in NYC! Neither listens to classical music or goes to a classical concert and that's NYC!  What!!!   Yes, that's true!

Bingo, my point is well represented. Conclusion: despite CDs, audiocassettes or other media, men love classical music. It's not the media. The music is the message! Women find classical a downer vs rock, pop, and country. And, in every case when I've taken a woman to a classical concert, I was the driving force. She never was. Must I beat this horse to death to prove my point??? Women and classical music are not compatible, no matter what the medium. Men buy CDs because they like that music. Simple!

Now, I'll listen to Dvorak's Cello Concerto on Mercury with Janos Starker. Maybe, back later.

shel natowsky