Nicholas Maw(1935-2009) RIP

[cilgwyn]

I should have just said that he doesn't fire me up like some conductors. Overrated and dull is going too far. Anyway,apart from his recordings of Szymanowski and Maw,he's not exactly adventurous. Bryden Thomson,now he was more interesting! People knock Karajan,but at least he had some kind of charisma about him,even if it was ghastly (all that posing!!) Yuk!! In fact,now he's gone,I must admit,in a horrible sort of way,the Berlin Philharmonic's just another orchestra without him. He had that steely maestro aura about him.
Not that you need to be a prima donna,of course! Vaclav Neumann and Bryden Thomson,in their own quiet ways,probably had more charisma than Karajan had hot dinners. I particularly admire conductors like that,for putting the music itself above their own egos. Which is probably why,they are less well known than big show offs like Bernstein,who I can't stand!! (His recordings of American composers aside!)
Another one that springs to mind,now! Maurice Abravanel,whose recordings with the Utah Symphony Orchestra,I have been recently enjoying. His Mahler is quite well known,and I love it;but his Sibelius is less 'celebrated'. The recordings aren't of spectacular quality,but they are crystal clear,you feel you can hear every note! The woodwind in particular. He certainly got some cold,wintry,Finnish winds whistling through the Mormon Tabernacle Hall in Salt Lake City. I was a bit dubious at first,but after two or three listens my cd changer was stuck on 'repeat all' and they will definately be making return visits!!

Now,what were we saying about Maw?!!

[cilgwyn]

Of course,unlike Bernstein,no one could accuse this cool dude of being a big show off!

[cilgwyn]

Seems like I kept my Maw 'Odyssey' cds after all! Minus the booklet & paper inserts,of course!!

[Sean]

Hey, really good to have those thoughts and pictures, thanks a lot; I'll look out for Maurice Abravanel, and indeed the Karajan Heldenleben is fantastic- he's peerless in Strauss. I hope to make it to Utah one day!

[cilgwyn]

The idea of an orchestra in Salt Lake City,Utah,playing Sibelius just caught my imagination. It's such a different kind of world! I had to try them. Now I like them! I'm tempted by the Utah Symphony Orchestra playing Rimsky Korsakov's wonderful 'Antar' Symphony & Ippolitov-Ivanov's 'Caucasian Sketches' too;but & I've already spent too much! (He also recorded Brahms & Tchaikovsky!)
The Abravanel Mahler 4 has a particularly lovely singer,Netania Davrath. Perfect,imho,for this music! No 2 features Beverly Sills,no less!

And Maw,I must say something about Maw!!!!

[Sean]

I'm familiar with these three works by Maw Little concert (oboe and orchestra), Odyssey and The World in the evening, each of which forgettable and misplaced.

The Caucasian sketches is among the most cheerful music...

[cilgwyn]

I may have another go at 'Odyssey',but since I've been saying that for the last two or three years.......!!!
Has Simon Rattle himself gone quiet about it?! No 'Odyssey' performances with the Berlin Philharmonic?! Perhaps they threatened to go on strike?!
Interesting how someone high profile like that can make such an error of judgement. I'd be more impressed by his audaciousness if he showed the same adventurous zeal as Thomson,Hickox and Handley,who recorded all sort of interesting byways of repertoire that Rattle steadfastly ignored. As I've said before I applaud Maw's attempt to create a big orchestral work in the tradition of Mahler and Strauss,and put a modern spin on it. Unfortunately,there's allot more to composing it seems than big ideas & compositional skills.
Another big orchestral work that Rattle could have done instead. Robert Simpson's Ninth Symphony. Some similarities there;but the Ninth has a fervour and visionary power lacking in Maw's 'Odyssey'. Also,unlike the 'Odyssey' it hangs together and it's not too long! And Simpson,at his best,does have his own sound world!
Of course,because of his work at the Beeb,Simpson is a slightly controversial figure,so maybe I'll leave it there!

[Sean]

Sure thing cilgwyn, you make some good points, though I've little idea what Rattle does or doesn't do with the BPO right now. Yes, I guess it looks like he's more interested in furthering his misguided modernism and halfway houses like Maw though than really championing the great existing stock of British music.

I know a stack of stuff by Simpson including his Ninth; there is indeed a distinct late romantic voice there although I must admit I can't bring the Ninth to mind right now- there was always a great deal of calculation and head over heart in his work...

[cilgwyn]

I agree with you about Simpson. Indeed the same points have been made about Simpson over at the Havergal Brian thread! His music is a bit cold and calculating. Like Maw,in his 'Odyssey',he looks to past masters & gives them a modern sheen,but remains strongly tonal. Like Maw,it's the clinical precision & coldness that's the main problem for me. I miss the humanity. Which is why I made the comparison! Having said that,I think what he is does is very clever,his Ninth is,imho,the best thing he ever did,and,with all his faults,he's a more interesting composer than Maw. In fact,after I've finished with the Dvorak symphonies I am currently listening to,I think I will actually go so far as to trudge to the back room and get it out of the box. (Now there's a composer with humanity & warmth by the bucketfull!) As to how many times I will actually play Simpson's Ninth? Well,we'll just have to see how it goes! Back to Dvorak,I fear! Not that I mind. I love his music.
Incidentally,I just noticed that broadcast recordings of Simpson's Symphonies 2,3,4,5 & 6 are available as downloads at the AMF forum. I think I will try No's 2 & 4,which I don't know!
Need I add,I won't be downloading any Maw!
Oh dear,there's an awful pun there!

[Sean]

cilgwyn I've got to know these below by Simpson; I must return to the Ninth symphony but the work I enthuse about most is the Eleventh quartet with its amazing slow movement. Actually I'm not 100% sure I don't mean the Tenth but I can't check it right now. The Fourth symphony is both somewhat Vaughan Williamsian but full of characteristic intricate and organic detail; it also brings Rawsthorne to mind.

Energy
Nielsen variations
Piano concerto
Symphonies Nos.4-5, 7, 9 & 11
String quartets Nos.1-11
String trio

[cilgwyn]

Thanks for the reply,Sean. I've know No3 from the old Unicorn Lp & it's coupling,No 5,9 and that's all! I have my only Simpson cd (of No 9) on now. Simpson admirers rate it highly,and judging by the Simpson thread,opinions are very polarised,to say the least! Still,11 pages is pretty good here!
The sound quality of some of the Simpson recordings at the AMF are not exactly state of the art. Some of them sound pretty ancient. The Flute & Piano Concertos are pretty good. I have just made a cdr of 2 & 4. No 2 is from a performance by the BBC Northern SO conducted by Cassuto! This recording sounds very old*!! Still,musn't be ungrateful & I've listened to worse! I seem to have read somewhere that the AMF recording of the Fourth Symphony is an earlier version of the symphony,which according to 'Dundonnell',who used to post here allot (now at AMF) is superior. I'm not sure about this though. I'll have to look through the Simpson thread.
Oh well!! No quartets there,unfortunately. I'll make a note of that one,though (and the other works you mention).
I thought I didn't like Rawsthorne,but I rather enjoyed the s/h emi cd I bought recently of old recordings of his Piano Concertos 1 & 2 played by Moura Lympany & Denis Mathews. Ancient recordings but plenty of atmosphere to compensate. The cd also includes Robert Donat narrating his 'Practical Cats'. A very rewarding cd if you don't mind old recordings.

I'll have to pop over to the Simpson thread at this rate!!

*The Simpson 2 sounds quite good,actually,on the cdr I made.

[cilgwyn]

The Fourth is an advance on No2. Phew! The sound quality isn't for the faint hearted. I might have a rest after this!! I'll then post a few observations on the Simpson thread if I'm sufficiently interested. This music is a bit on the mathematical side,for me! Like the Maw it chugs relentlessly away;but like the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz,I'm not sure it's got a heart! I was impressed by the Ninth though. But with the emphasis on impressed as opposed to moved!

[cilgwyn]

Hm! I seem to have the same problems with Simpson as I have with Maw. The recordings don't help,though! The Ninth is impressive though,but it's still a case of back to Dvorak,for me!

[cilgwyn]

Maw vs Simpson (contd)!! Two points. I think Simpson is definately the more interesting composer. Secondly,I really do need to hear 2 & 4 in better sound quality to form an opinion. Oh,and a third,actually. I'm not in that much of a hurry.....as yet!!

[springrite]

The Fourth is an advance on No2. Phew! The sound quality isn't for the faint hearted. I might have a rest after this!! I'll then post a few observations on the Simpson thread if I'm sufficiently interested. This music is a bit on the mathematical side,for me! Like the Maw it chugs relentlessly away;but like the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz,I'm not sure it's got a heart! I was impressed by the Ninth though. But with the emphasis on impressed as opposed to moved!

You just might like two works by Simpson: Nielsen Variations (Orchestral) and Haydn, for 4tet. They have far more immediate appeal than the symphonies.

[cilgwyn]

Thanks for the recommendations springrite! I will make a note of them. Actually,I just listened to Bruckner's ninth earlier and,I don't like to compare the two,but I think I preferred Simpson's! The fact that he was able to finish it probably helps,too!
As I said,those music files weren't much help,sonically. I will definately be giving Simpson 2 & 4 another go,at some point. Spent a bit too much dosh on those Abravanel,Dvorak & Bruckner,so I'm going to have to hold off for now!

[Sean]

Hi Cilgwyn

Nice that you have LPs- I had access to a huge collection last year and got my player out.

Regarding Simpson I thought it revealing that he would listen to the Vegh quartet recordings of the Beethoven quartets, which are very straight faced, slightly soulless and sound rather like they're taking an examination for a grade- I bought them on CD but sold them again.

The Rawsthorne are sophisticated understated concertos and I like them

[snyprrr]

Maw's Mandible